mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 So, our flame angel and one of our clowns are showing signs of ich I, stupidly, do not have a QT set up so I am hoping to get one going in the next day or two. If you are doing a water change soon and live up north, and don't mind giving me your water, please let me know. I'll need 10 gallons. I'm going tonight to get some treatment stuff, but from what I've read, the best thing to do is treat the fish in a separate tank with copper. All my fish seem to be feeling fine, but I just don't want to risk loosing any of them. I have the angel, two clowns, a mandarin dragonet, a engineer goby, and a blue tang. I really don't think I'll be able to get the mandarin or the goby out, but I'm going to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juiceman Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'd leave them be, and just stuff them with vitamins, and garlic. Try to figure out what's stressing them also. You'll cause more stress trying to catch them. That's my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Capt. Obvious Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 agreed...although...get a QT as well...and I am up north as well...and have water if you need it...and i never do copper treatments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Is this a reef tank or FOWL? I would assume they all have it, or they will all get it, if any have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 uv sterilizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Capt - when could I come by for the water? I'm free tonight and tomorrow. This is a reef tank, and yes, I am afraid that the other fish have it now as well. Especially concerned about the mandarin because I don't know how I can get him to eat garlic. Would adding some garlic extract to a bottle of trigerpods be effective? I purchased the angel, the tang and the mandarin this weekend and the clown fish have been in the tank for about three weeks. I think the angel was the initial source since he's the only other one that is showing signs and my clowns didn't have any signs until the angel was added. It must have been stressed from all the moves from tank to bag to tank etc. What should I look for when purchasing a UV sterilizer? And does anyone have one that I can borrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 If you can setup large enough QT tank, I would do my best to get every fish out of there. Borrow a fish trap if you have to. Setup the QT tank, and do a hypo-salinity treatment for 6 weeks and/or a copper treatment. I like the hypo method since you're going to need to keep the fish out of the DT until there's no chance of ich still being in there. Make sure you have a seeded filter for the QT or it's going to cycle and there's not a whole lot of hope for fish with ich surviving that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 While I agree with leaving them be and treating with garlic, lots of WC, etc., perhaps removing most if not all of your rock plus corals and all the inverts you can catch would be easier than trying to catch the fish. Put your rock/coral/invert into a QT(so to speak) and turn the display into your QT and use the hyposalinity method versus copper. The sand bed bacteria will support the system without the rock, although it might take a hit if you drop the salinity too fast. You can use PVC pipe to offer shelter to the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 So, say I was able to get all of my fish out of the tank and into a QT and start using the hypo method - what do I do to treat the DT? If the hypo method is used, should I still use a UV sterilizer? ETA: I don't mind removing my rock to get the fish out. I'm not 100% in love with my aquascaping anyway. If I were to move my rock out of the way to make it easier to get the fish, would this be too stressful on the fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Theoretically you wont need to use UV. The hypo will kill the ich on the fish. Time will kill the ich in the tank assuming there's no fish for it to attach to. Robb is suggesting doing the opposite where you move the rock and coral and basically hypo the DT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 But if I move my rock and coral to another tank, I would need another light to keep everything happy. I don't have the budget for that. Unless I just move over one of my AI Sols temporarily.... Ugh, this sucks. We are hosting Christmas at our house too and we were so excited to show off our new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 While I agree with leaving them be and treating with garlic, lots of WC, etc., perhaps removing most if not all of your rock plus corals and all the inverts you can catch would be easier than trying to catch the fish. Put your rock/coral/invert into a QT(so to speak) and turn the display into your QT and use the hyposalinity method versus copper. Robb was correct, I just want to stress not putting any copper in your DT no matter what is currently residing there, because the copper will bond with rocks, substrate, etc. and can kill inverts for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Agreed on the copper for sure. I would go as far to say never to use copper on anything that could ever conceivably make it in your DT. Hypo method for SW and the high-temp method for FW. Others may disagree, but if you're catching it early, there's no need to add any chemicals, let alone copper, to any tank for ich IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Capt. Obvious Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I have a UV light as well you can borrow...give me a call...my number hasn't changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 After more reading, definitely staying away from copper. The hypo method seems to be the best choice. I'm worried about making the DT a temporary QT like Robb suggested because I don't have a deep sand bed and I'm worried that all the bacteria will die off. For a QT tank, do I need anything more than established water and a heater? Some articles said to use a power head and some said not to... One article said to get a sponge filter, and that it should be established with bacteria, which I obviously don't have. So what should I do for filtration? From what I've read, large water changes are required with the hypo method, so is any filtration even needed? Thanks for all the input and willingness to help! It's beyond appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I did copper in a QT and it worked just fine, you just have to be extremely diligent and careful and follow the directions. I have done it on 2 clownfish, a blue tang, a clown trigger, a purple tang, and a queen angel. None of my fish in the treat died. Also, you shouldn't see the mandarin get ich...they have a different slime coating, and the parasite cannot get under their coating. Make sure, if you're going hypo that you have an enormous amount of buffer ready, the pH tends to go whacky in hypo treats. I always set my QT up with clean, fresh water, not established water- mostly because parasites that cause disease are generally in the water column as well. I use a sponge filter, or a HOB. In hypo, doing 2-3 water changes a day, the filtration shouldn't matter too much, which is why I use a sponge filter (even if its not seeded): theyre much quieter and stress the fish out less. Additionally, to "treat" the DT you will need to have it devoid of fish for 1-2 months while running a UV sterilizer to break the lifecycle of the ich parasite. The lifecycle is about 30 days, which means that after 30 days a large percentage of the hatched parasite should be gone, but then a remainder population of the unhatched will still be present. I left my fish out for an extra month to be sure. My treatment went as follows: Copper for ~1 month, then hypo for about 2 weeks to minimize stress on them (BUT NOTE THAT YOU NEVER EVER EVER WANT TO DO COPPER AND HYPO A THE SAME TIME. It means pretty much instant death), and normal water for another 2 weeks before reintroducing them into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks again for all the input everyone! After discussing it further with my better half, we are going to try to treat the fish in the tank with garlic, vitamins and the UV sterilizer. Hopefully this will help them build up their immune systems and fight it off. If there are no signs of improvement in a couple of weeks or it get's worse, then we'll probably move them over to a QT tank and try the hypo method. They are all eating and acting normal, so we'll just keep our fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesreyn Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks again for all the input everyone! After discussing it further with my better half, we are going to try to treat the fish in the tank with garlic, vitamins and the UV sterilizer. Hopefully this will help them build up their immune systems and fight it off. If there are no signs of improvement in a couple of weeks or it get's worse, then we'll probably move them over to a QT tank and try the hypo method. They are all eating and acting normal, so we'll just keep our fingers crossed. That's what I do. Feed them a little more than usual and soak everything in garlic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 garlic and zoe are two great things to soak the food in while feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 garlic and zoe are two great things to soak the food in while feeding. I picked up both from RCA last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 awesome deal! I forgot to grab some zoe while I was there. I feed garlic and zoe soaked krill/mysis and a mix of Dr G's anti-parasitic food to my 75 gallon QT. As soon as my BRS order arrives I plan to take all coral/rock out and copper treat the QT to "sterilize" it again and reuse it while I build up this DT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Uv sterilizer, cleaner shrimp And feed with garlic for the win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 When I went home the night I wrote this up, the flame angel didn't have that spot on him and after looking at the clown, the spots on him were more of discolorations then salt like speckles. After watching them over the last several days, the angel hasn't gotten that spot back and I've come to the conclusion that it must have been a piece of sand or rock from him swimming through all the rock work. And as for the clown, I think the spots of discoloration are from the other clown beating up on him. The bigger one had been nipping on him and even took a piece of his dorsal fin. I'm keeping an eye on that and if he continues to be aggressive, he'll probably get traded out. In the end, I did learn the valuable lesson of having a QT set up. I've got a 10 gallon tank in the back of my car and I'll be sure to have it fully set up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I don't think it's likely your angel had sand attached to them. I would assume that it is/was ich. Don't quit with what you're currently doing. Ich has a specific lifecycle and it wont be visible for most of it. The visible stage of ich only lasts for about 7 days. After that it is in the substrate for up to about a month before it attacks again. When in the substrate it multiplies substantially. If it was localized only on the angel fish, it's quite possible that none of the other fish would get it for about a month after it disappears. Then once the cysts growing in the substrate hatch, all of the fish in the tank get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Is there a critter we can get and is reef safe that eats the cysts in the substrate? That would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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