Teresa Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Hi Everyone, Today's project is going to be to rip out the internal wall in my biocube - wish me luck! Anyway, once that's done, I'm going to hook up all my equipment and I want as few internal items as possible. Right now I have the Apex canister filter that uses an external pump. I'd like to use my skimmer to run the water from the tank and through the canister. I'm wondering if this is just a really bad idea. The skimmer is a HOB Eshopps with external pump. The water would run through the skimmer, be directly routed to the canister and then back out into the tank. This will keep all pumps out of the water. Here's my concern: As the canister filter gathers more and more debris, will the water back up into my skimmer and then overflow onto my floor? Anyone ever try this before? The other alternative is to have the skimmer hooked up after the canister so it pulls the water through the canister. Then I don't have to worry about the water backing up. However, I was thinking the skimmer should be the first mode of filtration . . . or does that even matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+o0zarkawater Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I know Bio(3) has a cube with the back wall removed, but he then drilled the tank and has a sump etc. He may be able to give you some insight into removing the wall. As far as the filter.... I know that if I even put a very coarse piece of sponge filter over the output of my HOB skimmer to reduce bubbles it raises the skimmers internal water level. Not to the point of flooding, but a good 1/2", far enough for me to decide that its not something I wanted to mess with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Can see pics with back wall out in my build thread http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/19996-biocube-29-wcustom-sump-in-stand/ You can see in the second picture where the silicone is that holds it all on to the bottom, it's also up the wall at each divider. Just slide razorblades between it and the glass then go back and clean up the silicone with a razor blade. Also the bottom is typically a PITA and dirty as sin so you might have to get a little rough with pulling it out. I broke the bottom of my divider as I removed it but didnt care cause it was trash to me anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 To answer the question requires clarification on placement of external pumps and particulars on the HOB skimmer. Does skimmer get its flow from syphon via tank level? As I view an Oceanic Biocube, the first compartment should maintain the same level as the tank. Separation between compartment 1 and 2 is with an overflow weir, allowing water to flow down into second compartment which is the largest of the three. Separation between compartment 2 & 3 is accomplished with a baffle that has an opening slot at the bottom of separation. Compartment 3 houses return pump to tank at about 250 GPH. The cannistar filters which I have use their own pump on top of cannistar. If both protein skimmer and cannistar each have their own pump, I would pull water from compartment 1 with skimmer and discharge skimmer water into compartment 2. Cannistar filter takes suction from compartment 2 and discharges into compartment 3. Why do you need to take a compartment divider out? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 To answer the question requires clarification on placement of external pumps and particulars on the HOB skimmer. Does skimmer get its flow from syphon via tank level? As I view an Oceanic Biocube, the first compartment should maintain the same level as the tank. Separation between compartment 1 and 2 is with an overflow weir, allowing water to flow down into second compartment which is the largest of the three. Separation between compartment 2 & 3 is accomplished with a baffle that has an opening slot at the bottom of separation. Compartment 3 houses return pump to tank at about 250 GPH. The cannistar filters which I have use their own pump on top of cannistar. If both protein skimmer and cannistar each have their own pump, I would pull water from compartment 1 with skimmer and discharge skimmer water into compartment 2. Cannistar filter takes suction from compartment 2 and discharges into compartment 3. Why do you need to take a compartment divider out? Patrick There is a leak somewhere between the front display and back compartments. I have a choice - either reseal internal divider or remove it. I'm thinking about just removing it. In this case, I'd prefer to use only one pump, not two as you described. If the water was currently flowing properly through the entire back, then I would do as you suggest. Unfortunately, it's only filling chamber 3 and not even traveling through the first two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 I know Bio(3) has a cube with the back wall removed, but he then drilled the tank and has a sump etc. He may be able to give you some insight into removing the wall. As far as the filter.... I know that if I even put a very coarse piece of sponge filter over the output of my HOB skimmer to reduce bubbles it raises the skimmers internal water level. Not to the point of flooding, but a good 1/2", far enough for me to decide that its not something I wanted to mess with. I was thinking the same thing . . .. Do you think it matters if the water goes through the protein skimmer last? Will there be any protein left for it to skim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 Can see pics with back wall out in my build thread http://www.austinree...-sump-in-stand/ You can see in the second picture where the silicone is that holds it all on to the bottom, it's also up the wall at each divider. Just slide razorblades between it and the glass then go back and clean up the silicone with a razor blade. Also the bottom is typically a PITA and dirty as sin so you might have to get a little rough with pulling it out. I broke the bottom of my divider as I removed it but didnt care cause it was trash to me anyways. Thanks for the link! That really helps me see where the silicone is. I'm debating about whether or not I want to start this project today, as I have to stop at 4pm. I don't think that's enough time considering all the livestock I've got to maintain in buckets, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 To answer the question requires clarification on placement of external pumps and particulars on the HOB skimmer. Does skimmer get its flow from syphon via tank level? As I view an Oceanic Biocube, the first compartment should maintain the same level as the tank. Separation between compartment 1 and 2 is with an overflow weir, allowing water to flow down into second compartment which is the largest of the three. Separation between compartment 2 & 3 is accomplished with a baffle that has an opening slot at the bottom of separation. Compartment 3 houses return pump to tank at about 250 GPH. The cannistar filters which I have use their own pump on top of cannistar. If both protein skimmer and cannistar each have their own pump, I would pull water from compartment 1 with skimmer and discharge skimmer water into compartment 2. Cannistar filter takes suction from compartment 2 and discharges into compartment 3. Why do you need to take a compartment divider out? Patrick There is a leak somewhere between the front display and back compartments. I have a choice - either reseal internal divider or remove it. I'm thinking about just removing it. In this case, I'd prefer to use only one pump, not two as you described. If the water was currently flowing properly through the entire back, then I would do as you suggest. Unfortunately, it's only filling chamber 3 and not even traveling through the first two. Teresa, Please excuse the engineer in me, I need more attention to detail to understand your solution and your problem. During normal operations, there are openings between tank and compartment 1. Water would normally flow over the divider between 1 & 2 compartments. Because compartment 2 & 3 are connected at the bottom of opening in divider, these two levels will always be the same. In my view, the leak could be into 2 or 3. If the above is correct then I understand your predicament. The leak is in the seam of front divider at compartment 2 or 3. If you can drain tank for twelve hours, it should be easy to fix. Even if you can not drain water from tank, it should be easy to use two part reef safe epoxy. With respect to operating a protein skimmer and a cannistar filter with one pump is a formula for disastor. Exercise caution at this point. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 What about having the skimmer on the opposite end, so it pulls the water through the canister. Anyone see any problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What about having the skimmer on the opposite end, so it pulls the water through the canister. Anyone see any problem with that? Normal operation of a cannistar filter uses pump pressure to force fluid thru membrane. Not a good idea to restrict flow on suction side of pump. As cannistar filter begins to plug up, the suction side of your external pump will begin to cavitate. Because you are feeding your skimmer you will not see the bubbles as the pump cavitates. Not a good idea. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If your pump is powerful enough, supply water for cannistar with pump discharge. This same pump discharge will feed the protein skimmer. From the point of view of optomizing operation of protein skimmer, you will have little control. As cannistar filter element gets plugged up, skimmers performance will fluctuate. You can do this with one pump, but it will not perform well. From the point of biological filtration, I do not think that it matters which is first in this series flow. It is apparent that the protein skimmer must flow back to tank with no restrictions therefore it must be last in your preferred hook up. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If I understand you, Patrick - one pump, T'd off, would feed each? That makes sense. I'm just curious. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Tee would be in parrellel and probably better than what I said which was in series. I do not recommend either, I recommend two pumps. However, Teresa wants to use one pump. So the above two options are her choices with the constraint of one pump. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Honestly, as a BC owner myself, i would just leave the divider in if you're going to be putting equipment in. If it leaks from front to back it really shouldnt matter because flow is being replenished both from the leak as well as from the intake slots on the right side of the divider? Maybe I'm just missing something, but seems like it would just be a good way to hide the intake tubes for the equipment that you are proposing to use. As far as powering the skimmer from the canister, just seems like way more trouble than its worth in terms of potential disaster (CRAP I JUST PUMPED OUT ALL OF THE WATER IN MY TANK THROUGH MY SKIMMER CUP AND ONTO THE FLOOR). Also, I'm curious about what's going in the canister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I just did get my first 29G BioCube from Bio3 a week ago. The manufacture is Oceanantic. I like everything about it except the slight fan noise. It has 72W of PC bulbs. I will use it as a macro/mushroom tank. I see the ease of running both cannistar and a protein skimmer from these back compartments hidden from view. In my application, I will fill middle compartment with reef rubble and operate it as a zooplankton generator to feed filter feeders in DT. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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