Soft or not?

[George Monnat Jr]

Wow, that sucks. I wish I knew an answer. Did you feed during that week without light?

Here's something you can try without tearing apart your tank:

Try to keep nitrates within 2 to 3 ppm, this range is perfectly safe for fish and corals, levels higher than 3 ppm will feed other algae and corals will start losing coloration.

So if nitrates reach more than 3 ppm do a small water change, small enough to reduce them to less than 3 ppm but no less than 2 ppm or else dinos will come back.

[Sherita]

First, what is your phosphate level? Second, how much h202 did you dose daily?

A good starting place for nuisances like this is wet web media, they have a ton of information. I don't know if you have been there yet, but here is a link to get you started if you haven't http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dinoalgcontrmar.htm

Dinos can be whipped, sometimes it just takes a lot of work.

[jaggedfire]

Derrick,

What kind of flow do you have, just the single MP40 and return from the sump?

Ive been reading that water changes will also introduce more nutrients to the system and may be keeping the dino going. Also, as they die off with no photo, they may be feeding off the nutrients perpetuating the cycle, although this should decline over time. Seems 7 days would be enough!

[DerrickH]

Water changes made it worse so stopped.

I havent done a wc in probably 3 weeks at least.

I dosed 8ml of 3% peroxide 2 times a day for 7 days straight. All it did was kill all my pods and *iss off my zoas

I run GFO(sea chem) non stop and change it every two weeks. I fill the reactor 3/4 way up and let it tumble. Most people only fill 1/4 way.

I have run GAC non stop and change it every 4-5 days. Enough to make my skimmer black....

I wet skim about 2g of water out every couple days.

Keep my SG around 1.023. Was 1.027 when dino showed up. Wet skimming then ATO with RO/DI water brought SG down

I moved all corals to a QT tank. They showed no dino in a few days after being in QT.

Shut lights off for 7 days, covered tank with black plastic so dang near zero light got in. Tank looked fine after 7 days black out. LIghts back on and showing the snot again....

I dose kalk with ATO. Pickling lime in a reactor that stirs every two hours so heavy dose. Ph stays in low 8's with this. Ato runs about 5g out in 2.5 days.

Nitrates show 0

Phosphates are low enough not to show on API kit...doesnt say much. I have had no other algae problems though so who knows.

Only ph is the MP40 cranked up 100% in quick pulse wave mode

Sand bed is thin, maybe 1/2" in back, 1" in front

Rock came from Prof, was dead as dead can get

I didnt have a single issue till I picked up some zoa's from another member. didnt dip...expensive lesson..

Getting pics through a bowfront is like splitting hairs....very difficult. Would like to have someone that has had dino to come take a look. Im about 99% sure its dino. I know its not cyano, its stringy and makes its own bubbles. Litterly like a snot string with bubbles on ends.

Put corals back in sunday, they look like total crap. Im about at my ends with this stuff.

[George Monnat Jr]

Nitrates show 0

Before you throw in the towel, try reading the Reef Central post on raising nitrates.

[DerrickH]

I cant get the nitrates up. I could dump 10 cubes of mysis in there and a ton of flake and they come up then dissapear in a day. I shouldnt have to raise the nitrates and "keep" them there. My bio load is too low. I need to stick some more fish in there to get the load up I guess. Who knows. Ive lost some zoas and my green milli so Im a bit irritated at this crap. Ive just about worn google out trying to find a fix for this. The only thing I havent tried is ozone. The equipment is a lil high for my taste, especially after chucking $700 on the apex...I can take my corals out, put them in QT and sun bleach the rock, thats not a problem. All my stuff is on frag plugs or rock rubble. Just a pain having to cycle all over again.

[DerrickH]

What problems has your low pH been causing?

I think I checked my pH once, about 6 years ago.

This right here ^

I haven't checked ph in I don't know how long. Dinos are not hard to get rid of in my experience. I dosed H202, and in a week they had disappeared. They showed up in another of my tanks, treated the same, they are gone. I dose kalkwasser in my topoff for alk and ca, routine water changes, no other dosing is done routinely. You might look into dosing H202 to get rid of the dinos (are you sure that is what they are?).

Ok, I missed the post about the H202 dosing, sorry.

Maybe a pic? That might help.

How much peroxide did you dose?

[cMidd]

If it was me, I would move the corals temporarily-leave the fish and let them run their course. It is a relatively "new" tank right?

[Bannerfish]

i don't think I've ever had dinos but I've had cyano that had bubbles in it. I've read that raising mg will get rid of them

[DerrickH]

thats another thing. Guess Im going to have to order a mag kit online. I should by all means be checking it...just fell through the cracks I guess. Everywhere around here is either out or dont stock any mag test kits. Whats a good mag test kit brand? Red Sea?

@ cMidd. For lack of a better word, tank is a newborn. I can see this being a "puberty" syndrome but Ive never had this stuff before. GHA/Diatoms/Cyano...yeah no worries and kicked all of them no prob. This stuff is nasty and populates faster than any cyano/gha Ive ever seen. I do know its photo based. After 7 days of no light, all the strings were gone and sand bed was clean as a whistle. Now its showing back up but on the rocks right now. Ive read a lot of successful stories using peroxide but I dang sure didnt have any. I cant remember, but I think I did one water change in the last 3 weeks, right before black out. I dont feed much since theres only 3 fish in the tank. Right now the UV sterilizer is shut off, GAC/GFO are off as well. Figured maybe the dino needs some competition in there or something. The UV kills all the free floating algae in the water, starving my clam and welso...So I figured turn it off, let the population get back up and take some ground that is currently being dominated by this dino stuff.

[jaggedfire]

I think the macro will be using all the nitrate up, if not the dino. Are you showing dino in the sump?

Curious if a black out in the DT and carbon dosing + heavy macro in the sump might starve out the dino and grow the bacteria and macro to compete with the dino.

[Sherita]

What problems has your low pH been causing?

I think I checked my pH once, about 6 years ago.

This right here ^

I haven't checked ph in I don't know how long. Dinos are not hard to get rid of in my experience. I dosed H202, and in a week they had disappeared. They showed up in another of my tanks, treated the same, they are gone. I dose kalkwasser in my topoff for alk and ca, routine water changes, no other dosing is done routinely. You might look into dosing H202 to get rid of the dinos (are you sure that is what they are?).

Ok, I missed the post about the H202 dosing, sorry.

Maybe a pic? That might help.

How much peroxide did you dose?

I dosed 1ml/5g of water, BUT if your zoas are already peeved at the lower dose, I wouldn't do it. Looking over the thread, I think another poster has suggested the best idea. Take your corals out into qt, and let the danged things run their course. Something is obviously fueling their growth, if you get the corals out so they aren't in danger, hopefully the stuff will starve itself out once it depletes whatever it is eating.

One other idea, and I found this out by accident. I started dosing my zoa grow tank with vitamin c. Within days, every spot of cyano, dinos and algae was gone. Just like that, poof. And, amazingly enough, the one frag with bryopsis on it that I had been trying to deal with.........bryopsis turned clear, croaked, and has never come back. I stopped dosing vit c, but none of that garbage has come back. Just another idea for you to toss around.

If you decide to dose vit c, you need the powder form, can be found at natural grocers in a bulk bag. My 140g system was getting 1 tsp in the morning, and the same in the evening. The vit c did cause a minor bacterial bloom, but it didn't last long. Also, my skimmer was pulling out some of the nastiest stuff I have ever seen (or smelled). Never before, or since, has it produced whatever was in that skimmate. But my zoas sure were happy with the vit c, and I am about to go back to it (just got my bulk order for the powder in).

[cMidd]

Yea.... here's an article I used to help get rid of my dino problem when i had them awhile back.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

It just sounds like the problem is that there is not enough competing with the dinos to starve them out. Sounds like you're on the right track though. Definitely is going to suck while you're trying to get rid of it though!

[Sherita]

Of course, the other side of the coin is you may not be fighting dinos at all, but something else. Wish i was closer, I would take a look under the microscope and we would know the answer pretty quickly.

[DerrickH]

Well at this point I'd be willing to bring some of this gunk to verify that it trully is dino. West Central shouldnt be too far from Jarrell, Im only about 10min north of Georgetown on 35. Be a small trip for me to verify what Im up against.

I cant click the link here at work. Sometimes I think they block out the entire net with their nazi security here...

About the vitamin C stuff, I havent tried that and Im running out of things to do other than break it down and sun bleach it all. You have a link to the stuff you used? Would think that peroxide woulda made a dent in it but no beuno...

[Sherita]

Lol, I'm in west central Texas, not Austin. About 5 hours from ya. HOWEVER, if you want to put some water in a specimen cup and mail it to me, I'll sure be happy to take a look. If you want my mailing addy just PM me.

The vit c I used from Natural Grocers doesn't have a link that I know of. You can find it at most health food/vitamin stores/organic stores. It will say "pure ascorbic acid" on the package. It's a powder, pure vitamin c. Start your tank with 1/4 tsp twice a day, and increase by 1/4 tsp every four days or so until you see results.

Let me go see if I can find the chart I have for dosing vit c. Brb.

[Sherita]

Ok, here's the chart

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC

10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC

15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC

20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC

25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC

30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC

and you can go here to find a calculator and more information on dosing vit c

http://www.saltwatermasters.com/articles/Vitamin-C-Dosing

the low end dosing is more for maintenance. I had mine up around 30 ppm when I was dealing with the nonsense, it sure did the trick for me. What I would do is put the dose of vit c in a high flow area of my sump (skimmer section) and let it dissolve and be dispersed into the tank. It took about a week before I saw a huge difference, within 2 weeks, every last aggravation was gone. I'm going to do maint dosing now, and be ready to bump it up if anything nasty shows its' face.

[George Monnat Jr]

Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley on Reef Central said concerning Vitamin C:

Yes, it is a carbon source , and that might be the only biological effect it has in a reef tank.

If that's correct, then it should have the same effect as vinegar or vodka.

Sherita, did you notice pH dropping more than normal with the Vitamin C?

[Sherita]

I can't say that I did, but then I'm one of those people who doesn't really watch ph too much. I watch my tank, if it's upset, then I start hunting the cause. But I have to be totally honest with you.......I didn't pay the least bit of attention to my ph when dosing. If you want, I'll try to track it this time, probably start dosing again this weekend.

[George Monnat Jr]

I can't say that I did, but then I'm one of those people who doesn't really watch ph too much. I watch my tank, if it's upset, then I start hunting the cause. But I have to be totally honest with you.......I didn't pay the least bit of attention to my ph when dosing. If you want, I'll try to track it this time, probably start dosing again this weekend.

I only asked because he's had problems maintaining pH which is recommended for fighting dino, and I think Vitamin C dosing is carbon dosing meaning more bacteria, more CO2 and lower pH. Hopefully it's gentle like vodka and less abrupt than vinegar.

[Sherita]

All I can go on is my experience with vit c dosing. Since I don't pay attention to my ph normally, I didn't pay attention to it when dosing.

What I can say, is that it did work, better than I could have ever hoped. Might not work for anyone else, but if the vit c will take care of the dinos, then the lower ph shouldn't be an issue one way or the other. That all being said, I have no idea if it might help his tank, but nothing else is working.......right?

[George Monnat Jr]

All I can go on is my experience with vit c dosing. Since I don't pay attention to my ph normally, I didn't pay attention to it when dosing.

What I can say, is that it did work, better than I could have ever hoped. Might not work for anyone else, but if the vit c will take care of the dinos, then the lower ph shouldn't be an issue one way or the other. That all being said, I have no idea if it might help his tank, but nothing else is working.......right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for as many alternatives and experiences as possible. I post out of curiousity not from being any kind of expert (I'm not).

[DerrickH]

lol at this point Im ready to pour bleach in the tank....j/k

[George Monnat Jr]

lol at this point Im ready to pour bleach in the tank....j/k

I really hope you don't need to. I can loan you my UV sterilizer and its pump if you want to add it. It won't cure your problem but it might help or speed up the recovery a little.

If everything is out but fish maybe no lights plus carbon dosing (vinegar/vodka/vitamin C)? I think vodka is the cheapest of those, but vitamin C might have additional benefits (I don't know).

[DerrickH]

I have a UV. Its off right now. With it on, theres nothing to compete with the dino lol. Im going to pick up a bottle of voldka, some for the tank, some to help me fall asleep and quit looking at the tank...haha