JasonJones Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I am getting ready to put together an LED build for Theresa's RSM 130D. I have been considering LEDs for my upcoming build for some time, but have been turned off by the light color of most LED systems. I have been following an LED light aesthetics thread on nano-reef for some time waiting on a suitable color mix to be determined. I think the time has finally come. This build will use the latest consensus on LED mixes. Theresa has been lucky/unlucky enough to be the slight guinia pig here (although similar builds have been used over numerous tanks online with success). Goals: 1) Light color that does not wash out any coral colors 2) Less disco ball effect and color banding 3) Sufficient light for any coral 4) Dimmable Approach 1) To achieve the color mix, the following mix of LEDs has been chosen 2 Osram Red (660nm) 3 Natural White 3 CoolWhite 2 Violet (420nm) 2 Turquose (495nm) 11 Royal Blue 2 Blue They will be driven with this configuration by 2 Meanwell ELN-60-48Ds: Driver 1: 3 NW, 3 CW, 2RB, 2 T, 2 R Driver 2: 9 CB, 2 B, 2 V Driver one is the white light. The royal blues, torquose and red mix together to form a white light, while also highlighting different colors than the natural white and cool whites do. Driver two will be the blue light. A mix of royal blues, blues, and violets (420nm) Both drivers are manually dimmable. 2) To minimize color banding and disco ball effect, the LEDs will be put close together and in multiple pods. I am not a fan of the builds that have the LEDs equal spaced across the whole tank. While it gives better, more even coverage, the color banding and disco ball (extreme shimmer) really bother me. Putting the light in pods helps eliminate this by having the light colors mix better. This is especially important when using multiple LED colors. I am planning on running this fixture without optics to increase color mixing, at the loss of some par. I am not sure the exact set up yet, as I am waiting to determine how we will aquascape the tank before deciding on one. These are the two options: Option 1 (for a tank with the aquascaping evenly spread out in the tank): Side 1: 1 R, 2NW, 1CW, 1V, 1 T, 6 RB and 1 B Side 2: 1 R, 1NW, 2CW, 1V, 1 T, 5 RB and 1 B Option 2 (for a tank with most of the aquascaping in the center): Left: 1 NW, 1 CW, 3RB Middle: 2 R, 1NW, 1CW, 2V, 2 T, 5 RB and 2 B Right:1 NW, 1 CW, 3RB 3) 25 (not 24...) LEDs should be sufficient lighting for most corals in this size tank. The RSM is 23.8" deep, which requires a lot of light to get to the bottom. I am a little bit concerned about this, especially since we will not be running optics, but I think it will be ok. We can raise the sand height a little bit if we determine there is not enough light. I really hope we can get a PAR meter to check out the tank. 4) Dimming is controlled by a nice two-knob kit supplied by RapidLED. 90% of this build comes from them, with the exception of the turquose LEDs and some 3 up stars, both of which come from ledgroupbuy.com. I am currently planning on putting this together next wednesday night (Mar. 7th) if anyone is interested in coming over to observe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is an adventurous build I think you may run into some difficulty dialing in your colors without being able to control each color "channel" independently. I'll follow along and help when and where i can. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 You are right, it would be much easier to dial everything in with multiple drivers, but the cost would be prohibitive on a build this small. But I think we will be ok. The whites should blend seemlessly, the RB-T-R mix should blend white when put close together, and the blues should mainly all blend together. In theory, I don't see much of a problem. Time will tell though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I can't wait to see how this turns out! I have only neutral whites and royal blues over my tank, the colors of my corals are good, but I do believe that some other colors in the spectrum are missing. I have been curious as to what effect adding other colors of LEDs into the mix will do. I know you're going to group them, but are you still worried about maybe islands of a specific light color throughout the tank since they are so concentrated? I know in my tank it is noticeable on the edge that there aren't any LEDs over that area or if there are what color they are. Really interested, can't wait to see the build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 1) To achieve the color mix, the following mix of LEDs has been chosen 2 Osram Red (660nm) 3 Natural White 3 CoolWhite 2 Violet (420nm) 2 Turquose (495nm) 11 Royal Blue 2 Blue ..... 24 LEDs should be sufficient lighting for most corals in this size tank..... Want to point out that the list you has 25 LEDs listed though. (Sorry, I'm a habitual proof reader.) I'm assuming you only want 24 as most of the standard heat sinks have even numbered capacities. Will two drivers require 2 AC power cords or will they only need one cord? Would lenses help with the disco ball effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Grog, you are correct, 25 LEDs. That was a typo earlier. As far as odd numbers, the heat sink is a blank slate and any number of LEDs can be added to it. This is a heatsink where the LEDs are glued on, not screwed on. The drivers will use multiple cords. I could wire it up with one, but wiring it up with two allows the colors to be on different timers in case you want to run the blues alone, or the whites. Lenses actually enhance the disco effect. The problem arises from LEDs being point light sources, like a MH. This is what makes MHs have the nice shimmer. However, when you have numerous point light sources from the multiple LEDs, it becomes shimmer on steriods. Adding lenses narrows the beam of light and makes it even worse. There are people expirementing with light diffusers. If after testing the unit, the par is high enough, I may try expirementing with this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I can't wait to see how this turns out! I have only neutral whites and royal blues over my tank, the colors of my corals are good, but I do believe that some other colors in the spectrum are missing. I have been curious as to what effect adding other colors of LEDs into the mix will do. I know you're going to group them, but are you still worried about maybe islands of a specific light color throughout the tank since they are so concentrated? I know in my tank it is noticeable on the edge that there aren't any LEDs over that area or if there are what color they are. Really interested, can't wait to see the build! I worry about the same thing, whether the light will spread out enough. I am going to barely glue the LEDs on first to see how it looks over the tank. I am hoping leaving the lenses off will help the spread. If the ideas dont work, I will spread the LEDs out in a more traditional format. However, radions use this same principle and provide decent coverage from what I have seen and what I have heard from friends running them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grog Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is a heatsink where the LEDs are glued on, not screwed on. The drivers will use multiple cords. I could wire it up with one, but wiring it up with two allows the colors to be on different timers in case you want to run the blues alone, or the whites. Lenses actually enhance the disco effect. Thanks on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The meanwell 48D will run 14cree LED without problems. Everyone runs 12 on the driver, but if you tune in the mA then the driver will do 2 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Derrick- thanks for the tip. I dug my multimeter out of the shop this weekend so I could tune them in. Nice to know I have a few extra LEDs that can be added if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have 52 cree 3w running on 4ea 48D drivers. 14 RB on one driver(outter sinks), 14 CW on one driver(outter sinks), then 12 RB on one driver(center sink), and mix of 12 CW/NW on one driver(center sink). I have found though, that the LED run at 100% around 8.6v on the diming input so I limit it to that instead of ramping all the way to 10v. Might just be a setting on the voltage pot in the driver. I had to play with the voltage pot on my RB (outter sinks) to get them to dim properly and brighten up. They were detuned pretty far, not sure why but its fixed now with no heat issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I worry about the same thing, whether the light will spread out enough. I am going to barely glue the LEDs on first to see how it looks over the tank. I am hoping leaving the lenses off will help the spread. If the ideas dont work, I will spread the LEDs out in a more traditional format. However, radions use this same principle and provide decent coverage from what I have seen and what I have heard from friends running them. I would suggest not gluing the LEDs on to test them. I used the thermal adhesive glue and barely used any, just enough to make a thin coat on the bottoms of the LEDs, and I find it impossible to pry them off. I've tried after I burnt some of mine out when the internal pot of a driver broke, and no luck. if you're only going to test it for a few minutes I would suggest using their thermal adhesive pads, I hear those are more easy to remove, or even just double sided tape to check the lights and then glue them down and re-wire them when you're happy with what you have. Believe me you don't want to permanently glue down LEDs without knowing that's what you want. I have half a dozen dead LEDs stuck on my heat sink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks for the heads up. I usually use just a dap of superglue when testing. Holds them in place and is easy to remove when done testing. Also cleans up pretty easy off the smooth surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I've never tried with superglue, but it's definitely worth a try! As long as you don't plan on permanently gluing them that way haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 No kidding. That would make for some good heat transfer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 What are you planning on using to dim? If you use an apex, you dont even need to power them via the eb8, and can simply use the dimmer to control the on/off. You also wont get that annoying bright flash on power down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 The owner of the lights does not run a controller, so I am just setting it up using the two color dimmable kit from rapidled. Although not as sexy as dimming via a controller, should work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Simple but effective. Looking forward to build pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think it would be really interesting to compare this to other more standard LED fixtures. Does anyone have an AI Sol or other homebuild using standard colors that we could compare this to during the build. Also, if someone had stellar camera skills that could capture the difference to show those who can't join, that would be wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I wish I could compare mine, I guess my DIY using only royal blue and neutral whites would be considered "standard colors," but my tank is currently in College Station and my camera doesn't represent the best colors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshel1217 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I email rapid a while back and they said that a setup similar to your can really help bring out all the color ( red led brings out orange and red ect). This should look very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I've got the standards (12x2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Looks like we are going to be doing the build tonight if anyone wants to come by. Just shoot me a PM. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 can't wait to see pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I was able to get most of the work done last night, with the LEDs just tacked on to the heatsink using superglue. They come off pretty easy, I popped a few off while soldering the wires. I was able to get the white LED string running, but something is amiss with the blue string, I will play with that more tonight. I was really impressed with the whites. It was odd when you just looked at the LEDs and could clearly see the red, royal blue and turquoise LEDs, but when you shine the light on the wall, it is a seemless white color. The addition of those LEDs also makes the white appear much less yellow than neutral whites or cool whites, seemed more in the 10-11k range to me. I am interested to see how it does when the blue LEDs are added. I may have to add in a couple more whites. I will have to play with the LED spacing a bit, I think I have them a little far apart right now. I used a chair sitting about 8" away from the LED to block the light and see how the color banding was, it was pretty bad. The tank should not have anything that close, and the banding was made worse because it had 4 feet to separate farther because the chair was away from the wall, versus the tank where you will have no more than 12-14". I would like to bring the LEDs closer to help eliminate this, but it will be a balancing act between bringing them closer and keeping them cool. The color is the most important, I can always add fans above the hot spots if necessary. Here are some pics I took throughout the process. This shows how I placed the LEDs to keep them straight and evenly spaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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