Large Reef Tanks 300G+ and Costs

[+Mcjudge]

I really didn't want to work this morning and so I decided to put together a short but extensive list of what would be my dream reef. I have only a small ADA 50 Gallon Reef and it is my first SW tank and it has only been up for about 5 months now. I have already spent well into the thousands on it. While I have only had my tank running for a short time I started "reading and trolling" 3 years ago. (I like to research)

Looking around at many different websites you see these huge tanks with crazy equipment lists and not to mention amazing stocking lists that look out of this world. I never really tried to quantify what it would take to put something like that together. That being said I really don't see getting into something like that for under about 15k.(not including those incidental runs to home depot) That gets you rock and sand but nothing more than that. Granted that is buying everything new from the manufacturer. Am I missing something or does it seem like all of the tank of the month guys with 250G tanks have easily spent that much?

If you guys want to see the list I put together I can post it, but suffice it to say it made me rethink playing the lotto.

Thoughts?

[pbnj]

15K? Probably, if you're talking top-of-the-line, new equipment across the board, some of which is probably completely unnecessary (like the build I saw with 12 Radion LEDs).

You should post your estimate list.

[Scream311]

POST IT !!!!!

[rgoodwill]

Do it do it do it!

[JasonJones]

I would think 15k is a decent estimate. I was budgeting out my next tank, around 180g, with mostly top end equipment and a custom tank. Before corals, fish, and water, I was hovering around 10k. It would be easy to spend the 5k+ on livestock.

That was when I decided I might need to scale down my plans a good bit.

[+Mcjudge]

Tank, Marineland 300G (Saphire 3 sides) $2000 Just a guess not a quote saw some hints on the price in the forums.

Stand, Custom in wall (Sheet Rock & Metal) $3000 Again paying someone to make the stand and do all the dry wall work.

Water Movement, 4x mp40's $2000 This might be overkill but its for SPS right!

2x Eheim 1262 $350

skimmer, Reef Dynamics INS400E $1500

heater, 2x 800W $100

ZeoVit Reactor, Nextreef mr1 $100

Controller, Apex Neptune $1000 (with all the extras)

Lighting, 3x 400W MH

Ballasts $450

Bulbs $240

Pendants $450

T5 Actnic $500

Chiller, JBJ 1/2 hp $1100

Criptic zone, 40G Breeder $200 (Probably don't need this but I like sponges)

Refugium, 40G Breeder $200 (Mainly for pods. Not in the sump but above tank flows right into tank)

algae scrubber, $350

Sump, $500

Auto Top Off $100

RO, Spectra pure 180GPD $400

Rock $2000

Sand $1000

Total: $17,540

That doesn't include plumbing, incidentals and shipping which might be another $1000-$2000.

I know some of this really is over the top but if you look at the things you could cut out you can't save a ton of money maybe you could shim it down to 12k, but still to me it seems like there are alot of people out there who have spent that. (It's an expensive hobby)

Edited December 1, 2011 by Mcjudge

[+Mcjudge]

Some people might look at that list and say well you could do LED's instead and cut out the MH's/T5's/Chiller. From what I have read is that the LED's will not reach the bottom of a tall tank, where as the MH's will. Honestly one of my favorite things about my current tank is the MH and the shimmering effect it has. LED's are supposed to have that too I think, I just don't have any experience with them.

You don't need the zeovit, criptic zone, refugium or the controller but that only adds up to $1500.

Sorry I meant to write Starphire Glass on the tank above.

And I missed a calcium reactor/kalk reactor. $500

Edited December 1, 2011 by Mcjudge

[pbnj]

Let's break this down a bit, shall we?

Tank, Marineland 300G (Saphire 3 sides) $2000 -- ($1800-$2000 is about right, but you can save 10% at the LFS with a $10 ARC membership card or wait for their big sales)

Stand, Custom in wall (Sheet Rock & Metal) $3000 Again paying someone to make the stand and do all the dry wall work. -- (I don't know about the sheet-rocking/in-wall part, but Prof, one of ARC's sponsors can build you a beautiful stand/canopy at a fair price)

Water Movement, 4x mp40's $2000 This might be overkill but its for SPS right! -- (Big waste of money. You can buy 3 Koralia 8's for around $300-$400. I know this is blasphemy for VorTech owners, but they are so overrated and not necessary)

2xEheim 1262 $350

skimmer, Reef Dynamics INS400E $1500 -- (There are much cheaper options, including used skimmers)

heater, 2x 800W $100 -- (May not even be needed)

ZeoVit Reactor, Nextreef mr1 $100 -- (Not necessary)

Controller, Apex Neptune $1000 (with all the extras) -- (Apex Lite will run you less than $500)

Lighting, 3x 400W MH -- (No reason to buy new. People are practically giving away their MH reflectors and ballasts to go LED)

Ballasts $450 -- (See lighting)

Bulbs $240 -- (research "Plusrite" bulbs, which cost about $12)

Pendants $450 -- (See lighting)

T5 Actnic $500 -- (See lighting)

Chiller, JBJ 1/2 hp $1100

Criptic zone, 40G Breeder $200 (Probably don't need this but I like sponges)-- (Not necessary)

Refugium, 40G Breeder $200 (Mainly for pods. Not in the sump but above tank flows right into tank) -- (Not necessary)

algae scrubber, $350 -- (Defintely not necessary if you have a good skimmer)

Sump, $500 -- (Cheaper options)

Auto Top Off $100

RO, Spectra pure 180GPD $400

Rock $2000 -- (If you're thinking liverock, switch to dead rock and just seed it; still way overestimated for the amount of dead rock you'll need)

Sand $1000 -- (You don't need "live" sand. Regular sand runs about $20-$25 for a huge bag)

[pbnj]

I'd say $7K-$8K.

[Richard L]

Crrrrazy amount of money, but those $$ seem to always increase exponentially with size!

Ahhh, those Vortechs.....I know that some will say things like the Vortech's seem way out of line since there are much more economic alternatives out there but here is how I see it:

Say that using a cheaper alternative saves you $1000. You're still looking at a $16,500 build. Add livestock and you just busted $20k easily. After spending that kind of money on my dream tank I know I would always regret not tossing in another $1k to eliminate those ugly powerheads and their cords from the view. I know myself too well. To take it a step further on my current build, I stepped up to MP60's. That way I could run them at 50% so I don't have to hear MP40's whirring at 100%. Yeah, yeah I'm the first to admit I have a problem, but I'm not building my next tank, I'm building my dream tank and that's how this thread started - Mcjudge's dream tank.

And these kinds of decisions don't have to be just based on aesthetics. For example, do I have to have a controller? Absolutely not, but having a $300 controller reacting to things like temperature swings, water leaks, ph crashes, etc is a relatively cheap safety net for the livestock that is in my charge. With each equipment decision I made sure I stepped back and compared it to the big picture.

In the meantime, for the sake of my marriage, I'm just praying that Ecotech doesn't introduce an MP80.

[+Mcjudge]

What is the difference between a Giesmann 400W 14k bulbs that goes for $80, and your plusrite for lets say $17. Seriously WTH am I missing something?

OK so obviously you can do all of that for less to make it a bit more real for the rest of the masses. I was mainly pricing full price from the manufacturer on tanks that I see online, like the reef in the sky or melev's ect... that seem to get alot of their gear new, and completely top end. I guess it was just an observation that it seems there are alot more people that have spent up on that level than I would have thought.

[pbnj]

What is the difference between a Giesmann 400W 14k bulbs that goes for $80, and your plusrite for lets say $17. Seriously WTH am I missing something?

If you buy that $80 bulb, what you'll be missing is about $65 out of your pocket.

Trust me, just do some research on the Plusrites. Like someone once told me, "they're all made in the same factory in China". It's all about the marketing for the name brands.

OK so obviously you can do all of that for less to make it a bit more real for the rest of the masses. I was mainly pricing full price from the manufacturer on tanks that I see online, like the reef in the sky or melev's ect... that seem to get alot of their gear new, and completely top end. I guess it was just an observation that it seems there are alot more people that have spent up on that level than I would have thought.

True, you could spend 15K and then some (like many have). My point is if you want beautiful, big reef tank, it's not mandatory to spend that much.

[pbnj]

Ahhh, those Vortechs.....I know that some will say things like the Vortech's seem way out of line since there are much more economic alternatives out there but here is how I see it:

Say that using a cheaper alternative saves you $1000. You're still looking at a $16,500 build. Add livestock and you just busted $20k easily. After spending that kind of money on my dream tank I know I would always regret not tossing in another $1k to eliminate those ugly powerheads and their cords from the view. I know myself too well. To take it a step further on my current build, I stepped up to MP60's. That way I could run them at 50% so I don't have to hear MP40's whirring at 100%. Yeah, yeah I'm the first to admit I have a problem, but I'm not building my next tank, I'm building my dream tank and that's how this thread started - Mcjudge's dream tank.

And these kinds of decisions don't have to be just based on aesthetics. For example, do I have to have a controller? Absolutely not, but having a $300 controller reacting to things like temperature swings, water leaks, ph crashes, etc is a relatively cheap safety net for the livestock that is in my charge. With each equipment decision I made sure I stepped back and compared it to the big picture.

I don't want to turn this person's thread into another VorTech debate. Let's just say to each their own. If people want to overspend on fancy pumps, more power to them. But like I tell everyone, if people are noticing/obsessing about 3 inches of powercord at the top of your tank (which get covered in algae anyway), then your tank's probably not very impressive to begin with. You can buy a lot of nice, eye-popping corals with that $2000+ savings.

Controllers are a completely different story. I look at them as insurance policies; I think they're vital because they can save a complete tank disaster, not to mention make your life much easier.

[JasonJones]

I don't want to turn this person's thread into another VorTech debate. Let's just say to each their own. If people want to overspend on fancy pumps, more power to them. But like I tell everyone, if people are noticing/obsessing about 3 inches of powercord at the top of your tank (which get covered in algae anyway), then your tank's probably not very impressive to begin with.

I would have to disagree on this statement and agree with Richard. In my opinion, there is nothing more that takes away from a tank than seeing a gaggle of powerheads and cords. When I look at pictures of a tank, the first thing my eye is drawn to are the powerheads. When I look into a tank, I want to have the illusion of looking into a slice of the ocean. Artificial objects take away from that experience. While I still find the look of Vortechs obtrusive, they are much better than any of the alternatives out there.

You are completely right, you can build a great tank that performs well without having top of the line everything. You can also buy a corvette that would satisfy most people and do almost as much as a Ferrari, but it will never quite be the same.

[pbnj]

You are completely right, you can build a great tank that performs well without having top of the line everything. You can also buy a corvette that would satisfy most people and do almost as much as a Ferrari, but it will never quite be the same.

For me, the corals and fish in the tank should be the Ferrari's....no need to drop an extra $2000 on fuzzy dice for the rear-view mirror.

[Richard L]

I might be stating the obvious but there is a lot of this high end equipment listed for pennies on the dollar on ARC. For my build, I was able to buy two Vortechs, an Apex with every accessory they make, a entire 3 part dosing system (with a 1/2 year supply of chemicals) and a Tunze ATO for 60-75% off retail by buying them on used on ARC! Amazingly none of them were more than four months old! It just takes a little time to accumulate it.

[Richard L]

For me, the corals and fish in the tank should be the Ferrari's....no need to drop an extra $2000 on fuzzy dice for the rear-view mirror.

I hear you Pat, but to me those big corded powerheads are like Volkswagon vans parked in front of the Ferrari's.

[+Mcjudge]

Thank you guys for entertaining a dream tank and also providing some great information about how to do it cheaper. It was kind of my first run through of, if money were no issue, what tank would you have in your living room kind of thing.

PBNJ if there is anything I have learned so far in my limited reefing time it has been that less is more it seems. I hooked up a calcium reactor because I had it and got a steal on it, but I didn't need it. In fact it caused more problems than it fixed. So in alot of your statements about not needed I might take a second to third look at those items and see what detriments they could bring to the tank.

To that same extent the first thing I am replacing in my tank is my koralia 2's with mp10's. I think the wave will look cool on a rimless. I think my fish might benefit from night mode and I think the display might benefit from the pulsing by removing waste. Now those are all thoughts rather than experience talking.

Cheers to you guys and your much larger setups though.... One Day!!!

[AquaJohn]

lol Im afraid to add up what I spent on my 110 over the last 2 years alto I could probly power a 300 with the equipment I have .

[+Hydro]

It adds up so fast it will make your head spin, seriously. I think this thread was about going big with everything so cutting corners on your dream tank isn't necessary. I didn't want cords in my tank so I bought 6 vortechs....was it necessary? Of course not but neither was the cabinetry around the tank, it was done because it looks nice. Richard nailed it, tanks get more expensive as they get bigger. I wish that I had only spent $15k. Just the DT and the chiller was $10k....add stand, cabinetry and skimmer and your at $15k....add vortechs and 500lbs of live rock and that's $20k.....add 2k watts of MH lighting, commercial UV light, 3 reactors (Ca, phos, and carbon), and 2 wave boxes and that's $25k....add fish and corals and you can go over $30k before you get started.

My build was right at 400 hrs, took me 3 months to get 90% of the work done, a year later I'm still trying to finish the last 10% lol.

[Myvirtue]

lol you guys crack me up. vortechs are expensive but im starting to hate koralias. Mine either freeze, or run backwards. (even with upgrade) Wish there was something between Koralias and vortechs

[Robb in Austin]

You think a 300 is expensive?

See the 20K gallon thread on reef frontiers. The dude built it himself so he saved a ton, but his electricity is rumored to run $1500 a month!

[+Hydro]

My electricity runs about $150 a month for my tank from what I can tell, that at .08 per Kw. We are very lucky in Tx, in Ca typically they pay .25 per Kw. So my tank there would be $600 a month just for power so 20k gallons for $1,500 a month....easily believable.

[+mcallahan]

Bottom line: It's a dream tank. If your dreams including cutting corners and thinking of nothing but the best, it isn't a dream.

[pbnj]

Bottom line: It's a dream tank. If your dreams including cutting corners and thinking of nothing but the best, it isn't a dream.

The OP seemed discouraged at the thought of spending 15K to build a large reef tank. I'd hate to see someone give-up on an upgrade because they feel they need to spend that kind of money just because others have.

If money wasn't an issue, this thread wouldn't even exist.