strange_screams Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You had two 100 gal tanks, with constantly rotating stock and live rock and were only allowed to use local tap water for water changes. You only have basic salt water supplies on-hand and no money to buy any thing extra...more specifically....How do you fix the mag/ calcium ratio on the cheap, assuming you guys in Austin have the same hard water problems as in Killeen. Other points to ponder...How do you increase water flow with no power outlets? and the only magnesium test Ive found was at an LFS was aquatek at 35 bucks, anyone point me to something more economical? This is an out of the box discussion, I'm trying to get ideas for what to do at work, so any arguments that I "Should be installing an Ro unit" are a given, I'm already fighting that paper trail battle. So, if you had to use the local tap water, what would you be doing to keep your water parameters where they should be? Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates fluctuate from 20 to 80 ppm SG 1.024 Calcium at 600 estimate, its off the charts for my tester cant test magnesium yet Would you dose Iodine? One tank has T8s another T5s Intermittent Ciano problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Rangoon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How do you increase water flow with no power outlets? Utilize a more open aquascape, the less bulky rock you have filling the tank, the less you'll be disrupting what water flow you do have. Stay away from the rock-wall design, and don't let any rock contact your side/back glass panels. Once this is done, simply position whatever flow device is on the tank wherever it's most efficient - be patient with the trial and error. and the only magnesium test Ive found was at an LFS was aquatek at 35 bucks, anyone point me to something more economical? Not really - Red Sea (more or less) has the most economically priced Mg kit on the market that has a good track record. I realize that you may not want to spend the $28-35 it goes for, but to be honest I don't think it should be a major concern of yours. If I weren't focused on getting maximum skeletal coral growth, I wouldn't be worried about my Mg levels - on that same point, if I were focused on skeletal growth, tap water and it's inherent phosphates would be out of the question. Since you are on a strictly tap-water-diet, don't worry about SPS corals or Mg levels, focus on what would be able to thrive fairly easily in your situation - soft corals, which brings us to... Would you dose Iodine? Absolutely. Soft corals and motile inverts (shrimp & crabs especially) will benefit greatly from this - just don't go overboard with it, since overdosing would be toxic. One tank has T8s another T5s Intermittent Ciano problems Those bulbs can be fine, as long as you're using the right spectrums. Stay away from lamps that are more yellow than 10k, the more Sun-like spectrums will only further encourage plant & algae growth. Finally, you can probably make a dent in the cyano issue by making sure the bulbs only run ~6-8 hours a day and are replaced within 9-12 months - shaving 1-2 extra hours off every day helps maximize the overall number of weeks/months the bulbs are still good, and replacing bulbs before they go bad (emitting orange and red light) will prevent plant & algae growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesL Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How do you fix the mag/ calcium ratio on the cheap, assuming you guys in Austin have the same hard water problems as in Killeen. One possibility would be switching the brands of salt used. There are numerous studies on the web breaking down the ca/mg content of all the popular salt mixes. I think Red See Pro has one of the higher counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaJMasta Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What do you need to fix about the calcium/magnesium ratio if the calcium is high and it's not precipitating? That means the magnesium is also quite high (though is the calcium test kit accurate/fresh?)... even without a test kit, if the magnesium was low - the calcium would be snow by now. The cyano and nitrates are probably both related to the tap water.... but the T8s aren't helping and I wouldn't be surprised if the T5s were old given the state of everything else. Increasing flow without outlets would be powerhead reorganization (no crossing streams, keep them mostly together and with an unobstructed path), or swap a powerhead for a larger one. No outlets can also be solved with a power strip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Rangoon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 There are numerous studies on the web breaking down the ca/mg content of all the popular salt mixes. I think Red See Pro has one of the higher counts. Definitely - Red Sea's Coral Pro salt & Instant Ocean's Reef Crystals are the better offerings in the lower end price range. It should be noted that Red Sea salt should be mixed longer than average, I suggest a day in advance. Undissolved particles at the bottom of your mix bucket is not uncommon with Red Sea, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If you can't get RO, can you at least get filtered water from the machines outside the grocery store? It's not perfect but it's better than tap, and not very expensive. I would think any filtration, even Brita or PUR, would be better than tap, but hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can weigh in on that thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_screams Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ok, this does help, I can rearrange some rock work and take out some dividers, my salt mix cant be helped. I can also reduce the lighting most days, and yes, the bulbs are old, another red tape battle. And commercially I cant use a power strip permanently per the fire marshal, the water is filtered heavily with carbon, a huge industrial culligan filter, but its still a far cry from RO, and as far as transporting RO myself, I just cant afford it, or I would gladly donate it to fix the tanks, replacing evaporation alone would send me to the poor house. I ask about mag/cal because I know thats one thing that is effecting the water and that I can test. This water is the worst I've ever seen, there has to be more that is wrong with it other then the hardness, I've had every classical problem in these tanks, its driving me crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 What worries me is your phrase "constantly rotating stock". I read this as a lot of animals are dying in your tanks, is this correct? Over the years I've seen a lot of algae problems cleared up just by switching from tap to R.O. water and I only use the generic Instant Ocean. I am curious if you evaluate the magnesium on your tank. This is something that did not come to my attention until I saw it on this site. I keep intending to get a kit to check my systems and sooner or later I'll get around to it but don't have a hair algae problem to see if it helps. I have noted in Michael Palleta's book "30 Ultimate Reef Aquariums" he makes a point that most do not monitor it but the book was published a few years ago so it may be something that's gained more promenance. (Same with TDS.) I don't ever dose iodine. The only thing I do for cyanobacteria is syphon it off when I do water changes. As far as water flow the only times I've been successfull with gorgonians is when they're getting heavy flow but I think most of the corals that do well in our tanks are very adaptable as far as water flow goes and some just don't care. I don't have a problem with either T8's or T5's as long as the soft/leather/stoney/polyps are matched up to them. Here's a jpeg of a corner 120 that currently has two 54W T5's and one 21W T5. See my thread "Polyp Porn" for pics of the Yellow Stone Polyps sexually reproducing. The following 200 gal. tank is one I've been taking care of for over three years now and for me has really reinforced the idea that the ecological balance in a system is what determines success NOT equipment. It gets biweekly 10% water changes with tap water ( I know, contradicts my opening statement). Only filtration is a UV sterilizor, no sump, no PS. Circulation is 2 hydor Korallia 2s and a Aquaclear 70 powerhead. Randomely has several tablespoons of CaribSea's Araga Might added. Lighting is 2 250W 12K HQI MH. Some Xenia is taken out with just about every water change. There is Valonia sp. algae in several locations where the urchins can't get to it but quite frankly the Xenia is much more troublesome ( and the clients son likes it ). Here's a closer view of the Purple Montipora digitata and Blue Coral. The M. digi was purchased in May of '08 and was a 1" frag with two fingers. The two colonies represent about 2/3s of what's currently in the tank, multiple 2" to 6" colonies have been taken out. This also shows the variation in color the lighting intensity can have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Nutriant pathways are the key issues for long term health in a closed reef system. Nutriants like nitrates and phosphates are biological processes which happen in a closed reef system independant of your make-up water. Frequent partial water changes address "dilution is the solution". From the biological point of view I like natural nitrate reducing systems which use deep sand beds, Jaubert plenumns and live rock. Phosphates are removed with algae filters and/or phosphate resin beads. For me, planted refugiums are a perfect answer to nutriant pathways and economical reef keeping. In addittion to removing nutriants, vegatable filters produce food for the reef tank inhabitants. My well water comes from the Edwards aquifer and is very high in TDS. When I see cyno, I prune maco-algae and replace phosphate resin. Typically low water flow areas show cyno before other areas. Happy reefing, Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_screams Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 My death rates are higher then I'd like, but well under whats considered normal for a dealer tank, I'm shooting for 0% though. the stock is rotating because its selling. subsea, How long does it ussually take a DSB to become beneficial in your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hey scream, I tried to look up Marine Depot forum in which Anthony Calfo spoke of the short term benefits of using a remote DSB. He is no longer a guest author on that forum, but he highlighted a case study in which a dealer used a 55G aquarium filled with 12 deep sand bed. The nitrate lavel went from 100 ppm to less than 20 in ten days. The dealer had about 500 G of display tanks tied into the 55G remote DSB. Once the dsb matured it responded quicker. I have not used sandbeds in this way, but I see the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strange_screams Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Oh!?! something to look into, thankyou subsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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