boognish

What can we do to get the community back and get this forum rollin again?  While I have not contributed as much in past year or so (mainly so I didn't buy anything!), I've checked in occasionally and I'm bummed to see the lack of activity compared to what it used to have.  I am paying more attention to my tank(s) lately and therefore checking back to these forums more often. I see many new faces - experienced and new reefers - on the FB page(s) who are asking questions and getting answers.  This would be a better ...forum... for that activity than FB.  It offers better organization via categorization and most importantly is a better research and learning tool via archives. Many of the conversations and questions I see on FB have been covered extensively here and many that haven't, should be, in my opinion.  Let's make this more than @FarmerTy personal area to show off!   Ideas?  Am I just old and FB is the new way?  From what my kids tell me, FB is for the old people.  I hear @Photodude (jakedoza) has been working to get TOTM since it was last presented in 2010.  Let's give him that chance!

My 3 AI Hydras (non-hd) are hung with 18" AI EXT rails.  I want 12" for better overlap and less par in the ends of my tank.  They are pretty much discontinued and stores that still carry them seem to have all lengths other than 12".  

I am getting params back in order and need more coral to get nutrient consumption/needs up before starting a new program.  I am looking for larger colonies or frags of cheaper and hardier sps, zoas, and palys.  If you have large colonies of Birdsnest, common zoas, etc, let me know.  Again - colonies or large frags preferred.  I'll even take some 'trash palys' if they are on their own little isolatable island.

Bump - $55 - Need it gone.

For sale - One Sherman Rose Bubble Tip Anemone.  Approximately 4" - 6".  Split about 6 months ago and this guy finally wandered to some glass where I could catch him.  Its in an open tupperware in the tank with eggrate on top waiting to go to it's new home. 

$60 OBO - Open to trades for coral.

A couple days before breaking down the tank for repair, I took video of everything in case livestock didn't make it through the ordeal and to have a record of the aquscape and where everything was. When I took that off of the GoPro, I found video form before "The Great SPS Die-Off". I miss the colorful branches and am currently hunting to restock it all. What I ended up with was way too much footage to choose from so it's a long video. I don't expect many to make it all the way through, but somewhere around 8 minutes, I do go into the tank and chase fish around for a while and find some blue zoas I thought I had lost doing great behind some rocks. I may need to remove the audio track because I received a warning that it's copyrighted and the video is blocked in some countries.

Watch it at YouTube in HD if you have the bandwidth. And if you have any of the sps you see in the first half video that you can frag, PM me!

I see some nice spots in that aquascape for some sps colonies!

That's funny, I thought the clam I had was the only huge clam that walked. He'd do the same thing... started moving to the front glass and I'd have to move him back monthly.

I think this aquascape is finally ready for those colonies you're so graciously offering up, @JeeperTy! Or did I read too much into that?

The 175 has been back up and running for three weeks, now. So far, my support repair has held, the seems are not leaking, and I only had two casualties: An unknown tiny sps colony and my pinkbar goby. I'm not sure why the pinkbar died 2 weeks after going back in, but I suspect stress since every other fish seems to be fine so far. My two rose bubbletips found new places and are bubbling up for the first time since I got the original a couple years ago.

My rock barrier has kept "Big Bertha" the clam in place. Ordinarily, it would be against the front glass by now. The barrier created a pretty cool sandbed area and some low rocks that are prime real-estate for zoas. Right now, I'm just using the area as a temp holding spot until I figure out where everything should go.

This weekend, I took out the 3x400w MHs and installed 3x AI Hydra 52s and got the canopy back on it's lift arms. The Hydra52s will be 11.5" off the surface in the water, but the canopy is currently in its upper position, so they are presently about 2" off the surface. After all the stories of people burning their coral, I wanted to make sure my light cycle and photoperiod programming was right before lowering it. This coral has been in a holding tank for a month while I did the repair, so they need a slower acclimation. I am amazed at the color these lights can bring out of what I thought was boring old, faded coral! I'll be lowering the canopy tomorrow, fine-tuning the color frequencies and levels this week, and hopefully getting some better pictures. There's a big window right behind the tank, so daytime shots are pretty much impossible. Once I get the colors where I like them, I can post the Apex programming and levels for anyone interested.

I'm sure you're a zombie right now with the lack of sleep! It must be very exciting though to be able to have your tank back. I'm sure your wife is happy at least to have the living room back!

Sleep? What is that? If only everything was completely moved back into the 175, she would be ecstatic. Between pee-wee hockey tournaments in College Station, an Olympic hopeful, scholarship-hunting daughter at swim meets in Bee Caves, work, and now... (for some reason it decides to rain in Austin) my lawn and garden are going nuts... who has time for sleep? I have been working on the tank after hours (10 - 3am-ish). Good news is, no leaks, and I finished re-aqua-scaping tonight and I am finally ready to move all of the frags and colonies back in. My clam has grown so much and ALWAYS works it's way up against the front glass, so I had to sacrifice some sand-bed and build a rock barrier to keep it back. I'm sure the scaping will change as I put the nems, frags, and colonies back in tomorrow night, but so far I like what has developed. Here's an unfocused and blown out pic of tonight's progress.

Once frags, nems, etc are in and the temporary system is moved out of the living room, I can start to re-doing all electrical, controllers, etc. and set up my new light system. I am switching from MH to LEDs, but that's entirely a different subject and post...

I started the transfer back into the 175 tonight. A late start combined with two broken rock pillars that needed to be rebuilt and 4 NHL 1st round, game-2 playoff games means I'll be up all night. I underestimated the amount of new saltwater I would need, so I'm in limbo. Right now, my 2 Black Ocellaris, 2 large RBTAs, 3 pajama cardinals, and target mandarin are still in the 25 long tank with all the coral and only 2 Koralia Nanos. Big Bertha (my giant 1' x 1.5' Derasa), Dejardinis Tang, Hippo Tang, Melanurus Wrasse, and Pinkbar Blenny are in the 175, with an mp40 and Tunze Turbelle.

I am currently posting this to get away from watching my RO/DI make water. I'm pretty sure I only slow it down. I just need about 3 to 5 gallons to be able to get the flow going and get a couple hours of sleep before my daughter's swim meet... 75 gallons-per-day suddenly seems slower than it ever was before.

Boognish,

I have a couple tubes of momentive RTV108 clear if you need to use one to get you tank up and running.

Thanks for the offer, Reburn, but I have 4 tubes of RTV 103. Considering my work, family, hockey, and coaching schedule, I knew this would take a while, so I took the time set up a pretty elaborate temporary setup that will hopefully keep everything alive and happy long enough.

I've done the inside of both overflows, which proved to be no simple undertaking in such cramped space. I used the caulk gun tubes, but recommend small tubes for easier application inside overflows. The rest of the tank is stripped of the old and ready for new silicone tomorrow. The silicone should have plenty of time to set while I set up the fix for the broken trim supports and figure out how to hang my new light system in the canopy.

Nice work. I used the momentum as well for my front glass repair on my tank and it's still holding solid.

How long have you been married? I've only made it to #45 on the divorce evidence items but I'm just breaking year 2 now of married life. I just want to see if I'm ahead or behind schedule.

14 Years this May 26th! So it looks like you could be slightly ahead of schedule. Mine averages out to ~16 a year, but as your relationship grows, you learn ways to earn some credits back.

All livestock and rock is on the life support system. Tank and sump are empty, the glass is scraped clean of coralline, and sandbed is in an old 55 gallon with saltwater and a koralia to prevent die-off which would cause a cycle when it goes back in.

The life support system (AKA divorce evidence item against me #223)

I have stripped the silicone off of the inside of the overflows and will tape and apply new silicone to them tonight. FYI, buy a lot of razor blades and wear gloves. They dull quickly and break. They hurt when they cut you, and when you forget about the cuts and clean the glass with Acetone, it hurts more... Tomorrow, I will start stripping all other silicone from the tank and hopefully have it all resealed and start the brace repair this weekend and allow the silicone a couple days to cure.

I've been researching silicones. There are so many threads on the innerwebs that contradict which are safe, which are not safe, and which are sorta safe. I gave up on all the pros (who must have stayed at Holiday Inn last night) and just read the MSDS on as many as I could. Essentially, here's what I found. Silicone2 is NOT safe at all. Don't even consider it. Silicone1 (GM or Dow available at Lowes, Home Depot, etc) used to be safe to use as long as it was not labeled 'Mildew Resistant'. This was usually the 'Doors and Windows' as opposed to the 'Bathroom and Sink'. However, they are now adding Petrolium Distillates to both in addition to the mildewcides. I never found exactly what the Petrolium distillates do, but I did read it could prevent mildew as well. My research eventually lead me to Momentive RTV103/108. 103 is black, 108 is clear. It contains only methyltriacetoxysilane and octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane in proportions that somehow form a bond significantly stronger (60%?) than store bought silicones. I read that many tank manufacturers use it and the MSDS sheets say it is FDA and USDS certified as NSF safe for food contact. It is considerably more expensive than the others, but in my case well worth it for strength and safety. The only place I found it in town was Grainger and they had to order it for next-day delivery from Dallas.

Well, my temporary 'stop-gap' fix for the failed top supports in April 2013 ended up not being as temporary as I planned. Here's a link to the post with my 'temporary' fix for broken top supports.

Last week, I noticed that I was going through more top-off than usual. There was no water in the garage where my bulkheads, pump and chiller are, so I inspected under the tank. Yup... there was water in the stand and occasional drips. I have a leak. The front left where the bowed glass meets the side has a pretty steady drip of water flowing down, welling up in the trim all the way around the tank, and flowing over into the stand underneath. I guess the 'fix' was ok for the back, but the broken supports were putting strain on the top front as well and allowing them to bow out and the seams to fail. After a day, I noticed the flow had slowed due to salt creep, so I got some super-glue gel and crammed it all around where the leaky seam was. I've reduce it to a gradual drip... for now... I think I may put a strap around the top to prevent catastrophic failure.

If I hadn't of spent the better part of a year and good chunk of change building the custom stand and canopy, I would get a new, larger tank. Instead, I have decided to remove all rock, livestock, and substrate, then completely drain, reseal, and repair the tank. Although I am just getting SPS back in after an alk swing killed 90% of it, everything is doing great. Zoas and shrooms are spreading everywhere and not looking like frag plugs, and it's just finally looking more natural. And now I have to tear it down...

I had to figure out a way to to provide front-to-back support on the top where the trim has failed. I decided to use two cables with brackets spanning from front to back with brackets hanging over each end. All stainless steel to prevent corrosion. So far, the only progress on this part are the brackets. To prevent them from slipping up over the edge, the cables will attach lower than the front lip causing it to pull in towards the tank.

Both supports are broken at the back.

I have set up a temporary system to house everything in.

The 150 gallon tub should hold most of the livestock and rock pillars. Complete with a frag tank and 1/3 hp chiller beneath the top resevoir. Water flows from the big tub up to the black container where I'll have a skimmer and calcium reactor drip, overflows into the 20-long frag tank which will hopefully hold smaller frags and anemones/clowns, then back into the 150 gallon tub. The amazing part of this setup is I didn't have to cut one piece of PVC or hose and didn't have to buy buy a pump, valve, chiller, or anything. The bulkhead attached to the pump even has an outlet for my skimmer and a ball valve with a hose for circulation in the tub already set up. My wife is a bit upset because my hoarding ways have been validated. She's very pleased with the state of our living room right now, too.

Thankfully, Ty is also a hoarder and has loaned me his old T5 setup and MH fixture and ballast.

I have ~40 gallons of saltwater ready for the transfer. I should be doing the transfer now, but I am writing this update instead. Procrastinating... Maybe it will all fix itself while I'm up here. Maybe I'll wake up and it was all a bad dream. Anyone want to go get a beer? Once I start this, I don't think I'll be getting away until it's done.

House is about 15 years old. The strange part to me is that when it is unplugged, I read 30ish volts in the sump with all other pumps and powerheads running, but when plug the one pump into the new outlet (not changing the others at all), the entire reading drops to 10v. Plugging it in anywhere else increase by 10 -12 v. As if plugging it into that one grounds everything for some reason. I don't know enough about it to understand that. Hoping someone does and can chime in.

I ran D from my breaker box in the garage to use specifically for the tank. Did that about a year ago. It shares a ground bus and neutral with all the others in the box in the garage. It only has the Apex and DC8 running 3x400 w ballasts, actinics, and a couple fans.

The good news is: If my house wasn't grounded before, it is now. The bad news is: Stray voltage readings did not change.

Found some more strangeness:

A. Volts in sump with Sedra/Skimmer plugged into the usual spot (same breaker chiller pump, powerheads, etc): 45V

B. Volts in sump with Sedra/Skimmer plugged into a socket across the house on different breaker: 45V

C. Volts in sump without Sedra/Skimmer plugged in at all: 33V

D. Volts in sump with Sedra/Skimmer plugged into the new socket I ran that is same socket/breaker as my Apex/DC8: 10V!!

Seems like plugging it into that new socket somehow grounds everything?

Tested ohms between grounds on B and D: got a slight reading and a beep, so they share a ground.

Tested ohms between ground on B and Neutral on D: 22 ohms so they are connected (22 is high, but they are long thin extension cords)

What is going on in my house...

I am heading to the Home Depot to get a bit of 6g copper wire and a way to couple it to that odd wire when I finish working today. I'll run it to that outside box's ground bus and test everything and report back this evening.

Also, do you by chance have a kill a watt meter so you can test your running amperage? You have to test current in-line, so it's difficult to do safely with a multimeter on a normal circuit. It's on a controller that would tell as well.

I do measure what all the lights and fans pull via the Apex controller, but the pumps and powerheads are intentionally on a separate circuit and just plugged into whatever I could reach to wherever I needed it. I plan to eventually get another EB8 for the pumps, etc that need to be controlled via the apex, but for now, I cannot measure what I'm pulling. I will definitely post my readings after getting rid of the powerstrips, etc to see if that makes a difference.

I did some preliminary investigation into the way my house is wired and found something that seems a bit unconventional (if not wrong)...

The main elec meter is at a shared box between houses. I assume the grounding rod is there because I have a thick copper ground wire coming out of the ground by my house on that side instead of a grounding post. It goes into the house between the brick and slab. On that same side is the first box. I could not see where this wire goes since its into the side of the house and not a box, so I tested ohms between the outside box's ground and neutral busses and that copper wire coming up out of the ground.

Outside box: By testing ohms between the incoming neutral and ground bus, I can tell I have continuity between the inside and outside boxes (GREEN)

However, I get nothing between the incoming neutral bus and that copper wire. I also get nothing between the outside box's ground bus and that copper wire.

I'm no electrician (I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night), but it seems like my entire house is not grounded. I have continuity between the two boxes along the GND/Neutral, but between neither of those and the grounding wire. My next test will be to get a wire and essentially 'jump' from that wire to the outside ground bus where I would assume it should go, then test my ground and readings from the tank and outlets in the house.

Nothing like a crash course in all the stuff my dad drilled into me, but I never listened to as a kid...

Thanks - Other's readings is exaclty what I was looking for. While it sets my mind at ease a little to see others with similar findings, it does not get me any closer to finding out what's up with my corals (both sps and softies) fading, and frogspawn not extending fully and receding, etc... Might be new tank syndrome even though its about a year old, but it can't hurt to make sure all the t's are crossed and I's are dotted.

I haven't had an electrician out to make sure I don't have anything wrong with my house wiring. I am also not following best practice with some of my wiring, which I will remedy this week. No more daisy-chaining cheap power strips. I guess I should move the powerstrip that is hanging over my sump that says "do not use in aquariums" also.

Grounding Post... I'm still on the fence about this one since all my research comes to down to exactly what jestep said.

I did find a couple threads this weekend that have similar issues, but none with resolution. Only one reported readings as high as 35-40 volts. Most only report up to 10 v with everything running. For both threads that I found, they were leaning towards just adding a grounding rod. Since the Skimmer/Sedra seems to be the largest contributor, I will test resistance form the case to the plug to make sure it is ok. I am also looking for an electrician to come by and check the house out. Since my readings in both tanks are much higher than anyone else is getting or would expect from the pumps, but not high enough to indicate a short, I will start with the house.

And since your other tank is doing good color wise I can only think that the circuit u added for the new tank isn't grounded.

My Apex/EB8 is the only thing hooked up to the new circuit. It is pushing the MHs, T5s, and a few fans. Funny you mention the colors in the other tank. Some things have decent color, but over all, things are faded in there also.

What about the other tank? Similar readings over in the front room?

I just tested the 75, and its even worse!

45V

Unplugged Koralia: Went down to 40v

Unplugged Maxijet: Went down to 20v

I stopped there...

I guess the question now, is ... Would a bad ground on the house or bad neutral/ground in the 'fusebox' cause every component to add voltage like this?

Several months ago, while changing a filter sock, I could have sworn I received a tiny shock when reconnecting the PVC extension at the bottom of my overflow. I was able to get it to happen that night, but never really noticed it again, so I left it alone. I tested for stray voltage today and I'm getting confusing readings. I am not sure if I should be looking at a problem with the house's ground or the elec system around the tank or both.

I've gone through a few threads on this and several other forums. I read that submersible magnetic pumps act like a generator and will produce stray voltage. How much is normal, I did not find. I assume it would vary with the size of the pump. I read that if a pump were shorted, I would read 120V in the water column, which I am not. The most I read is 32v - 34v.

If you have readings or the availability to get readings, I would be curious to see what results others get. In all of the threads I stumbled upon, I did not find any readings to compare.

House Readings
To test I first tested an outlet used by several pumps and lights on the tank by setting the voltmeter to V~ and sticking the black in the longer ground side and red in the shorter live side. I then tested an outlet on a completely different fuse they both read 121V. I expected 124V.

I moved the red to the 3rd ground hole and received mixed/incosistent readings on different outlets: .77V - 1.3V
So my first question is: Is it abnormal to read a little bit of voltage on the ground like that?

Tank Readings
To test, I insert the black probe in the round 3rd hole of a socket and the red in the tank or sump.

With everything unplugged/off except for the external Reeflo circ pump. All of ther readings below display the actual reading I got which includes this inital mysterious value...

TANK: 4.3V

SUMP: 3.9V

Plugging components back in individually:

• Display:
  • Tunze turbelle
    • TANK: 8.8v (4.5 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 7.4v (3.5 additional Vs)
  • Vortech MP40
    • TANK: 5.7v (1.4 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 5.4v (1.5 additional Vs)
  • Tunze wave box (older model)
    • TANK: 6.1v (1.8 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 5.3v (1.4 additional Vs)
• Sump
  • Koralia Nano
    • TANK: 8.2v (3.9 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 8.2v (4.3 additional Vs)
  • Chiller pump
    • TANK: 8.3v (4 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 7.8v (3.9 additional Vs)
  • Sedra 9000 for ASM g3 skimmer
    • TANK: 14.3v (10 additional Vs)
    • SUMP: 14.3v (10.4 additional Vs)

Adding my readings together, I should read 29.9v in the tank and 28.9v in the sump.

My actual readings are 33v in the tank and 31.5v in the sump. (Each reading goes up 1v with all MHs and T5s and assocaited fans on)

Is it normal for EVERY component to add stray volts to the water column or is this an indication of something wrong in the house?

Needless to say, I have left the skimmer unplugged for now while I do some research on this. These are weird numbers and have me a bit confused since the individual numbers do not add up to what I my readings are when everything is running. Any input from the electrically inclined or with experience with any of this is appreciated. I am wondering if I need to focus on an issue with the house ground before any of the tank electrical or if I should focus on the tank electrical.

Some sites recommend using a grounding rod... anyone use one? A ground would give any potential volts a path to ground and therefore cause current, so I'm not sure that is a solution to my problem.

Fresh batch mixed yesterday at approximately 1.025

Ca: 420

Kh: ~7.5

Used api test kits, but I compared mine and Jeremy's water yesterday using red sea and api. Comparing results from all the kits, the ca and alk were equal.

My avatar says it all...

I've used a dresser in the past. Some old school dressers are made with more solid construction methods and materials than a lot of the stands you can find. You just need to make sure the bottom edge is flush (not up on castors or legs) and it has actual wood supports and not just a piece of plywood on the edges.

Having said that.... the space we have for it is only 4' - 5' max and only allows room for a stand, I think. Looks like I'll be building one if I cannot find a used one. New stands are ridiculously expensive and not in the budget for this cichlid tank.