How's my Rock?

[Rgwiz11]

This is my first tank (75g) and my first try at aquascaping. My roommate and I found a great deal on some LR, so we could finally start filling it up and letting the cycling get into full swing. We have about 90-100lbs of rock. How does it look, think we need more or less? We plan on having corals and some fish; a couple tangs, some clowns, and a mandarin or two. I think we have some pretty good caves and shelves, but would love to hear what you people with more experience think

[OgreMkV]

It's really nice (and I love the tank). I really like the depth of the sand.

Have you secured the rocks in any way? That big one on the top and in the center looks precariously balanced. You might try to epoxy the rocks. You might also (if you epoxy them) try to open it up a touch (make some tunnels for fish to swim through, etc.)

[caferacermike]

You don't have enough rock for a mandarin, let alone 2 of them. Common advice would be that a 120g, or much larger, full or rock can support the growth of "pods" which the mandarins feed from. Most mandarins are very picky eaters and tend to starve to death in reef tanks.

It is sad I know. I set up my 75g just for the purpose of keeping 1 mandarin. I added almost 200lbs of live rock. All went well for a couple of months until I decided I needed a few more fish. The mandarin quickly died.

[+Razor]

Your setup looks good.

[Rgwiz11]

Thanks for the input everyone! Most of the bottom rock is wedged into the sand and not moving around much, but yes, the big rock in the center is quite a danger at the moment. I don't think most anything could knock it over, but I've learned to never underestimate the strength of wildlife

As far as tunnels, I guess they are kind of hard to see in the picture. I wanted to get far enough away so that you could see all of the rock work. There's a tunnel on the bottom right of the big rocks in the center, as well as one to the upper right of the purple rock right of center. Also, we tried to incorporate 3 more tunnels on the left side of the tank as well. All in all, I'm hoping it's enough for the critters that like to hide and swim.

Sad to hear about the mandarin, as they are one of the best looking fish that I have seen. Is it possible to add supplements for the mandarin to munch on if you don't have enough rock? I've just noticed the mandarins at RCA that seem to be hanging out in nothing bigger than a 30g biocube, and they always seem to be doing fine.

[caferacermike]

Ah but that is a fish store, not real life. How easy would it be to replace them when necessary? Is it possible that a fish store would have access to a continuous supply of live copepods via their large sumps, large coral displays, and large amounts of fresh live rock within holding tanks? In large numbers often times something that is said to be near impossible may become possible. By this I mean that if you have a fish store and turn over 20 mandarins a week, you might come across one that accepts frozen while in a "for sale" tank. In that situation it might behoove you to remove that individual to a smaller fancier display tank to show off your "prowess" as a keeper of such rarities. Is it possible that they are feeding live pods from a bottle such as "Tiger pods" whilst feeding a mix of frozen pods from reef nutrition in such a manner as to have trained their mandarins to eat a replacement for live? In such an environment it would be much easier to do this than in our home tanks which these foods can easily become cost prohibitive and in which that we might only have a few minutes time per day to attempt such a practice. There are a lot of things that a fish store can do that we cannot at home. Look at the awesome display tank at Aquatek. That tank can easily get a couple of water changes a week whenever the employees are told to do such. It can have continuous small feedings all day at the attention of the workers. The amount of lighting, feeding, and additives are much easier to control when you have 10 hours to stare at the tank and your livelihood depends upon its success.

So what am I getting on about? Whenever someone says "such and such fish store can do it", I feel that is comparing apples to oranges. They have an advantage that most home hobbyists just cannot match in volume of product, access to such items as food, additives, and equipment, and the simple most important item of all TIME. We generally at home do not have 10-12 hours to devote to our tanks 7 days a week and a small army of trained workers to attend to our needs whenever told to.

In the end is it impossible to house a mandarin in a 75g tank? The answer is no. It may take more work to train the fish to eat then you have time for. If it does take, you may not be able to keep any other fish with it as the other faster fish can easily out-compete the little mandarin for food, as well as intimidate it. Of course once our tanks are set up we always end up buying more fish even though we say we won't. I do have articles at home about people having trained their mandarins to eat foods delivered to them within a small bottle so that other fish cannot get to the food. This is difficult at best.

[Rgwiz11]

So...Possible, but challenging. Probably not the best fish for a starter tank. Thanks for the info!

[NonSequitur]

That's a good point.. I always wondered about the mandarin in the 30g cube at RCA, but put that way it makes a lot of sense.

[Rgwiz11]

I've been doing some sleuthing on the Mandarin, and found a good article about a guy trying to keep one alive in his nano. I'm not saying I'm ready to get one yet, but it's a good read, nonetheless, if you've thought about getting a Mandarin, but have been hesitant because of lack of rock.

http://joshday.com/mandaringoby.htm

[Rich]

dunno if anyone said this already or not but you should try and put your overflow box in the center of the tank. unless you want it on the side, youll need to move that jet away from it tho.

[Rgwiz11]

Ya, overflow box is built into the tank, so can't move it. We've been looking at our powerhead placement and seeing how it's affecting the flow into the overflow. Looks good now, but we may end up moving it once we get some livestock in and more stuff we have to filter out.

[stoneroller]

Sounds like your rock is sitting on the sand bed instead of the bottom of the tank. Some sifting and burrowing fish (and other critters like brittle stars) can undermine a rock-stack causing a tumble of rocks. Not good. So be careful what critters you choose or make sure your rockscape is bullet proof. Looks good to me btw!

[Rgwiz11]

Thanks stone! The rock is on the acrylic and not the sand. When we put it in we made sure we shifted it around enough to bury it in the sand bed

[+Daniel]

I have a single mandarin in my 90g and he's quite fat, for a mandarin. I have had it for ~10 months, so I know it's eating. I have probably 80+lbs of LR, with a relatively open rockscape. However, the rock I have is very porous.

I would wait for the copepods to establish themselves before attempting a mandarin. Also, the more you feed your other fish, the less likely they are to develop a taste for the copepods. I can see copepods on the glass all the time, so I know their population is stable.

[Hamp]

If you are going to get a mandarin, I would wait 6+ months or so and have a healthy fuge with lots of macro. Then seed the tank a couple of times with tigger pods and also make sure you dont have fish that over compete with them for the pods. Also make small piles of live rock in the tank and sump where they are protected from predators. The more established your tank, the better luck you will have. If you still wonder if they will survive, then the answer is probably no. Also watch out for flatworms, they will decimate a pod population. Be patient and keep other fish for a while. Let the mandarin be one of the last things you add.

[Hamp]

Aquscape looks great BTW.

[GKarshens]

Well since no one else has, I will also comment on the idea of a couple Tangs in a 75. Not a good idea. I wouldn't even keep one. I know a LOT of people do it and claim success. But really what is success? A year, 2 years. These fish should live decades if properly cared for. Tangs need a ton of swim room. I feel at least a 6 foot tank.

Also on the Mandarins, I could not keep one alive in my 125 because I had Wrasses that were out competing him for pods. He got skinnier and skinnier. I finally was able to catch him and traded him to Mike. I am not sure if that is the one he was referring to above.

As for your rock work. It looks like you have some nice tunnels there. You might consider doing something a little asymmetrical though to add interest. It is all about the same height.

Hope I didn't rain on your parade too much.