ATO reservoir height concern

[Good Greef]

Hey y'all,

For my ATO reservoir, I currently use a 13.75 gallon pet food container that has the Tunze Osmolator ATO setup. Once the optical sensor in my sump's return area detects low water, it kicks on.

Currently I am in the market for a larger RODI reservoir - which needs to fit into a defined space between my tank and sofa. In order to max out the water volume it can hold, I was going to purchase a taller container that is 24 inches tall. The issue is that my ATO effluent connects to the top of my sump and dumps water in at 20 inches tall. In the past, whenever the water level in my reservoir was taller than where the ATO effluent is connected, there would be a gravity siphon that would dump RODI into my tank until the water leveled.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can prevent this gravity siphon from occurring? I can not lift the sump any higher and want to be able to fill the reservoir up all the way to 24 inches tall. I've heard some ppl poking holes in the ATO tubing but it wasn't clear where it should be poked, etc. So Im looking for any positive convictions based on experiences? Thanks

 

Marc

 

[+Dogfish]

I have never had this problem with a 3155. What I do is keep a tall loop between the ATO tank and the sump. I have the tubing tie wrapped to my overflow pipe. I also keep the end of the tubing above the sump water level.

[Isaac]

just keep the water line above the sumps water level, so there is an air brake.... no siphon.

[Good Greef]

I have never had this problem with a 3155. What I do is keep a tall loop between the ATO tank and the sump. I have the tubing tie wrapped to my overflow pipe. I also keep the end of the tubing above the sump water level.

Dogfish,

So what you're saying is to just suspend the end of the tubing high enough using zipties or whatever, so that its above the 24 inch max rodi height inside the reservoir?

It would be nice if I could use the sumps connector fittings but I guess ill just have to get longer tubing and consider doing that.

[Good Greef]

just keep the water line above the sumps water level, so there is an air brake.... no siphon.

Im not talking about a siphon from the sump back into the ATO reservoir. Im talking about the opposite.

Once my Osmolator kicks on, it will keep pouring into the sump until my ATO reservoir water level drops below the height of the tubing effluent.

[Sierra Bravo]

Two ways to do it off the top of my head: 

First, the height where the water exits the tubing needs to be higher than the waterline of your 24" water storage container.  This can be accomplished by pumping the fresh water directly into your DT or overflow instead of the sump, which without pictures I'd still hazard to guess you could do this fairly inconspicuously using your return pipe to route the tubing.  You could also add a pvc standpipe to your sump with the top end being taller than 24" and run it to there. 

Second, use a float valve to control stopping the water at the height you want it to be.  Drawback here is that if the float valve fails you'll have the siphon you are trying to avoid.  I use a float valve from my RODI to my mixing tank and another as a fail safe from my ATO container to the sump and haven't had any issues.

[Isaac]

19 minutes ago, Good Greef said:

Im not talking about a siphon from the sump back into the ATO reservoir. Im talking about the opposite.

Once my Osmolator kicks on, it will keep pouring into the sump until my ATO reservoir water level drops below the height of the tubing effluent.
 

if the sump's end of the tub is above the water level in the ATO tank, it shouldnt siphon.   in my case, my ATO is always above my sump, i ended up putting a 24v sprinkler valve in place, that kicks on when the pump kicks on.

[Isaac]

Just now, Sierra Bravo said:

Two ways to do it off the top of my head: 

First, where the water exits the tubing needs to be higher than the waterline of your 24" water storage container.  This can be accomplished by pumping the fresh water directly into your DT or overflow instead of the sump, which without pictures I'd still hazard to guess you could do this fairly inconspicuously using your return pipe to route the tubing.  You could also add a pvc standpipe to your sump with the top end being taller than 24" and run it to there. 

Second, use a float valve to control stopping the water at the height you want it to be.  Drawback here is that if the float valve fails you'll have the siphon you are trying to avoid.  I use a float valve from my RODI to my mixing tank and another as a fail safe from my ATO container to the sump and haven't had any issues.

i've flooded using those before... dont trust those mechanical floats.

[Good Greef]

if the sump's end of the tub is above the water level in the ATO tank, it shouldnt siphon.   in my case, my ATO is always above my sump, i ended up putting a 24v sprinkler valve in place, that kicks on when the pump kicks on.

Yep. Thats my issue. ATO level is going to be at 24-26 inches, while the tube into the sump is at 20 inches.

Interested in ur sprinkler idea, ill check ur build thread.

Would poking a hole somehwere on the tube prevent this also?

[Sierra Bravo]

1 minute ago, Isaac said:

i've flooded using those before... dont trust those mechanical floats.

And that's why it's listed second. . .    In my case I have a secondary ATO top off tank different than my 20 gallon RODI storage tank that even if it flooded I would only dump a few gallons into the sump, so I'm not too worried.

They also make a solenoid valve you can hook up to your controller, but I'm not familiar enough to speak to that.

[Sierra Bravo]

3 minutes ago, Good Greef said:

Yep. Thats my issue. ATO level is going to be at 24-26 inches, while the tube into the sump is at 20 inches.

Interested in ur sprinkler idea, ill check ur build thread.

Would poking a hole somehwere on the tube prevent this also?

How much space do you have above your sump water line to the top of the stand?

[Sierra Bravo]

This is what I'm talking about using a simple standpipe, as long as you have the space in your cabinet to have the end of the pvc pipe above the 24" water level of your ATO tank.  The end of the tubing is now above the ATO waterline and a siphon cannot be created.

 

[Good Greef]

How much space do you have above your sump water line to the top of the stand?

Ill be removing this pet food container, and the new ATO will be outside to the right of the stand, where those stools are.

There's enough space for me to just clamp it higher than 24 inches to the overflow box or within the stand, Ill just need longer tubing.

[+Dogfish]

1 hour ago, Sierra Bravo said:

This is what I'm talking about using a simple standpipe, as long as you have the space in your cabinet to have the end of the pvc pipe above the 24" water level of your ATO tank.  The end of the tubing is now above the ATO waterline and a siphon cannot be created.

 

Thia looks like my setup. The "standpipe" being one of my overflow pipes with the tube strapped to it.

[Reefpuck]

5 hours ago, Sierra Bravo said:

This is what I'm talking about using a simple standpipe, as long as you have the space in your cabinet to have the end of the pvc pipe above the 24" water level of your ATO tank.  The end of the tubing is now above the ATO waterline and a siphon cannot be created.

 

Very cool (and simple idea)! 

[Isaac]

occams razor

[Sierra Bravo]

9 minutes ago, Isaac said:

occams razor

Otherwise known to those of us who took shop rather than philosophy as  "K.I.S.S."