powerheads & water flow

[Heather]

I'd really appreciate a little advice and/or reassurance with my water flow and powerhead set up. I've got a 54 g display tank, 11 g sump, DT is 36"x20"x21" . 630~g/h Tunze return pump, 2 Jebao WP10 & 1 Jebao WP 40 powerheads. I've got the WP10s on the back of the tank, near the middle of each side. Until yesterday I also had the WP 40 on 50% (lowest setting) on one side of the tank, water was really moving & sand on the bottom moved a little. Put a frogspawn in the tank yesterday and he was NOT liking being blasted by the WP40, we turned it off for a few minutes and kinda liked the way everything acted with it off. We had it on because that's how the tank came from the previous owner and nothing seemed unhappy (just seemed a little happier when we turned it off).

Based on what I've read ideal flow is 10-30x water volume/hour, that would be up to 1620g/h for me. Right now I've got the return pump at 600g/h, and the WP10's on a cycle from 500-1050 g/h, so that's a total of 1600-2700g/h. In theory that should be plenty of flow, but I'm a little worried about having dead spots. The WP40 on the lowest setting pumps 1700g/h, Am I right in thinking the WP40 may be a little too much for my tank?

Should I place the WP10's differently?

Should I get a 3rd WP10 for the side?

When I decide to get some SPS corals that need more flow, will I need to bring back the WP40, or should I be good with 2-3 WP10's?

Thanks so much for any input and advice you can give me!

[jestep]

Personally I think it's more complicated than just an arbitrary volume per gallons, but there's a few things going on here. Euphyllia will typically inflate when the water flow goes down, so this is normal. If it's trying to fully retract or expels all the water from its tissue, it's too much flow, but otherwise what you're explaining sounds normal.

Unless you're using an oscillator or other wave function, I would just ignore the return pump for in tank flow. Yeah, it's providing some flow, but it's directional and should be calculated into figuring in tank flow.

How high up do you have the WP40 on the tank? Also, most importantly, do you have the frequency of the WP40 so that you are getting an actual harmonic wave in the tank? Basically this is when you have the perfect frequency where the pump is on, pushing water towards the other side, then turns off, for the same amount of time, and then turns on exactly when the previous wave bounces back off the same wall the pump is mounted on. Once you hit the correct frequency for a wave, the moving water reinforces its own movement. The pump might only be pushing 800gph, but there's actually tens of thousands of gallons of movement per hour. The other good thing about making a wave like this, is that's is fairly mellow flow in most of the tank compared to having power heads actually aimed directly at rockwork and coral.

I run a RW15 which is basically the newer version of the WP40, and I have to keep it at almost the lowest setting in a 90 gallon tank. I still have a roughly 1in wave on the water surface and there is only a tiny section where there was a dead spot, just due to my rockwork. At more than 50%, I think I could probably get my stand to start skipping across my tile floor and will definitely be splashing water out of the tank. I can't imagine running a WP40 on 50% on a 50 gallon, let alone needing more WP10 on the same tank. It sounds to me like you might want to play with the frequency some more before making a decision on adding or removing pumps.

[Heather]

Personally I think it's more complicated than just an arbitrary volume per gallons, but there's a few things going on here. Euphyllia will typically inflate when the water flow goes down, so this is normal. If it's trying to fully retract or expels all the water from its tissue, it's too much flow, but otherwise what you're explaining sounds normal.

He was definitely retracting, the flow was just blasting him, it was definitely too much

Unless you're using an oscillator or other wave function, I would just ignore the return pump for in tank flow. Yeah, it's providing some flow, but it's directional and should be calculated into figuring in tank flow.

Sounds good, thanks!

How high up do you have the WP40 on the tank? Also, most importantly, do you have the frequency of the WP40 so that you are getting an actual harmonic wave in the tank? Basically this is when you have the perfect frequency where the pump is on, pushing water towards the other side, then turns off, for the same amount of time, and then turns on exactly when the previous wave bounces back off the same wall the pump is mounted on. Once you hit the correct frequency for a wave, the moving water reinforces its own movement. The pump might only be pushing 800gph, but there's actually tens of thousands of gallons of movement per hour. The other good thing about making a wave like this, is that's is fairly mellow flow in most of the tank compared to having power heads actually aimed directly at rockwork and coral.

It was between 1/2 & 1/3 from the top, I don't think the wave action was right, because we didn't get a lot of back and forth, maybe we'll try making the off cycle longer, that might help.

I run a RW15 which is basically the newer version of the WP40, and I have to keep it at almost the lowest setting in a 90 gallon tank. I still have a roughly 1in wave on the water surface and there is only a tiny section where there was a dead spot, just due to my rockwork. At more than 50%, I think I could probably get my stand to start skipping across my tile floor and will definitely be splashing water out of the tank. I can't imagine running a WP40 on 50% on a 50 gallon, let alone needing more WP10 on the same tank. It sounds to me like you might want to play with the frequency some more before making a decision on adding or removing pumps.

You just have the 1 PH? I'm concerned the WP40 is just too much for my tank, the lowest setting is 50%, I think if I could turn it down to 25% or even 10% it would be better. For clarification: I don't want to add a 4th PH, I'm thinking about getting rid of the WP40 and adding a 3rd WP10, or maybe just keeping the 2 WP10's I already have, just not sure I'm getting enough movement with them the way I have them positioned. I think for the moment I'm going to leave the WP40 out and experiment with the frequency and positioning of the WP10's.

Thanks Jestep!!

[jestep]

NP, also, this is roughly where I have my pump located, and did the same when I had my 50 gallon (36 x 18 x 18) running:

Basically as high up as possible without it sucking air.

Does yours have the S1, S2, S3 functions on the controller, or just the H, L, W1, W2, W3? There are 2 versions of controllers for this and the one with the S functions offers much better speed control.

Also, if needed you can run these off a 12V power supply and get roughly 50% of the flow from the same pump.

Anyway, I would put the pump at the S3 position, and then W1 on the wave side. Slowly adjust the frequency and at certain points you should see the wave quickly get bigger with each pulse, and then all the water in the tank will be part of the back and forth wave. This is basically what you're looking for.

[FarmerTy]

If you don't have the newer controller, I'm pretty sure I have an extra one. Just let me know.

[Heather]

NP, also, this is roughly where I have my pump located, and did the same when I had my 50 gallon (36 x 18 x 18) running:

Basically as high up as possible without it sucking air.

Does yours have the S1, S2, S3 functions on the controller, or just the H, L, W1, W2, W3? There are 2 versions of controllers for this and the one with the S functions offers much better speed control.

Also, if needed you can run these off a 12V power supply and get roughly 50% of the flow from the same pump.

Anyway, I would put the pump at the S3 position, and then W1 on the wave side. Slowly adjust the frequency and at certain points you should see the wave quickly get bigger with each pulse, and then all the water in the tank will be part of the back and forth wave. This is basically what you're looking for.

Thanks again! We had it at S3, W1, but we didn't adjust the frequency, we'll do that and move it up and see how it does. We may put one of the WP10's on the side and see how it does & compare the 2.

If you don't have the newer controller, I'm pretty sure I have an extra one. Just let me know.

I've got the newer controller, but thanks Ty

[Neon Reefer]

random flow mode set up high @ 50% means your moving ~2000 gph or 40X the volume of your tank which is more than plenty for SPS Too much for many LPS and waaaay too much for softies. Add in your return pump probably ~ 300 gph at the nozzle maybe less and you sure don't need the 10's If you find you have a dead spot then run them all but at ~ 30% max.

[Heather]

random flow mode set up high @ 50% means your moving ~2000 gph or 40X the volume of your tank which is more than plenty for SPS Too much for many LPS and waaaay too much for softies. Add in your return pump probably ~ 300 gph at the nozzle maybe less and you sure don't need the 10's If you find you have a dead spot then run them all but at ~ 30% max.

Based on what I'm seeing in my tank, I completely agree with you. 30% of max flow on all of them would be the ideal solution, I think...BUT my only options are 100%, 75% or 50% and 50% on the WP40 is just way too much. We tested it again last night in the position on jestep's diagram (nice, thanks ) and in that position on S3, W1 and at every frequency it was splashing water out the other side and shooting spray up onto the light, moved it down lower and it was moving lots of sand around (which was how we had it set up originally). I guess I have 2 options- 1. get a WP25 or an RW8, might be worth it for added functionality and sell the WP40 or 2. buy some kind of adapter that gives the WP40 full functionality, found one online last night, need to do more research on stuff like that. I'll find it again and post a link here and see what you all think.

For the interim, do you think I'm better off to run just the 2 10's at 100% (that's what I'm doing at the moment) and have a bit less than ideal flow or am I better off to run the 40 and have too much flow?

Thanks again!

[FarmerTy]

I was going to chime in and say you need to downsize to the WP-25 but seems like you've already run across that option now. That WP40 is just too much for your size tank IMO. I use them on my 215-gallon that's 6' long.

I think you're on the right track, both the WP10s at 100% seems reasonable until you get your hands on a WP25. Depending on your setup, I'd probably do two WP25s, put them on either side of the tank at roughly the configuration that Jestep diagrammed.

[jestep]

If you're getting new ones I definitely recommend the RW's. The controller is better and it can sync wirelessly to other RW pumps without needing any additional controller or accessory.

[FarmerTy]

If you're getting new ones I definitely recommend the RW's. The controller is better and it can sync wirelessly to other RW pumps without needing any additional controller or accessory.

Good call Jestep. I still use the WP models because they are run through my Apex and my programmed wave programs work better with the more direct flow of the WPs. The RWs are more updated and have a wider spread flow which would probably be ideal for your tank Heather.

[Heather]

Thanks so much for your help guys!

An RW8 has more flow options, right? Seems like that's my best option, should I be looking at anything else?

I think an RW8 will be better for me, but here's the link to the controller I found last night http://www.joejaworski.com/jebao/ Seems pretty cool and gives more function options than the Jebaos come with. Is this similar to the kind of stuff the Apex will do? (Obviously the Apex controls other things too)