Apex/vortech/tunze question

[Bpb]

Posted this on RC also. You guys are so much faster. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question. It seems like it should be obvious, but I am not finding any info on the subject when googling. I've got a Vortech MP40w, gen2 old school controller. I've got a Tunze 6105 coming in the mail. I really would like to have the two powerheads communicate through the apex. It looks like everyone who is running synced programs have matching powerheads.

I can either sell my Vortech, and purchase another tunze plus apex vdm cable and run them both together...or purchase a vdm tunze cable and a wxm module for the vortech and save about $50-$75 bucks.

Id like to run a profile where during the daylight hours, I run one pump in the off position, and the other doing a 10 second strong flow 100% power swell, and a 10-15 second gentle flow at say 40-50%, repeating for a couple hours, then switch to the other pump doing that same thing. Kind of mimicking a tide swell with periods of strong and gentle flow, good undertow, and changing direction. Then a calm night mode at 30% or so, alternating direction every couple hours. With both pumps being off during feed mode. I see something similar to this in a lot of programming examples.

Is this something I would be able to do with a Tunze and a Vortech together? Or do they need to match?

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[victoly]

They don't need to match. Making pump profiles for tunzes are a little more manual and challenging than the ecotech profiles. You can get them to do similar (but not identical) things. It's really not a huge deal, just not as plug and play as if they were both ecotechs or both tunzes. Again, 2x tunze's are a little more work.

[mbaxter]

Here is how Id approach that, Break it down into separate pieces:

1. Day Tidal motion on Vortech - Swell

2. Day motion on Tunze - Swell

3. Alternate On/Off between devices.

The night would be similar

1. You'll need the WXM to interface with the Vortech to do anything other then turn it ON or OFF. Then you could set the pump to Tidal Swell for the whole day and then give it specific times to be off

EX: If TIme 08:00 to 10:00 Then OFF - Your vortech would have a status of MISSING during this time.

2. Then use a virtual outlet and Ramp Profiles on the VDM to control the Tunze during the time that the Vortech is OFF, essentially filling in the blanks.

If Time 08:00 to 10:00 Then ON

That puts the alternating times in the hands of the apex for each device Vortech/WXM and the VDM/Tunze

Then its a matter of having the Ramp profiles setup to give you the swell motion you desire on the single Tunze. My guess is that you'd create a ramp profile for each flow you desire (100% ramp and a 40-50% Ramp). Then tie each Ramp profile to a unique virtual outlet and use the OSC function to switch them OFF/ON/OFF.

Like this:

The Oscillate statement can be most simply thought of as a repeating ON and OFF. You can define an ON time and a OFF time and the oscillate will toggle your outlet ON/OFF based on that.

So why would you use the oscillate?

• To setup a recurring dosing schedule
• To drive Tunze pumps to make a wave
• Any time you wanted a repeating ON/OFF cycle for an outlet

The oscillate statement has a precision of seconds so it's very useful for that reason alone - other statements like 'If Time' can only get down to minutes without some gymnastics.

The oscillate statement has 3 time components in two different versions - either OFF/ON/OFF (the most typical use) or ON/OFF/ON. In either case, the logic is identical. The time components are in the format of MMM:SS.

Why are there 3 time components - why not just 2? The addition of a third time gives you the ability to stagger multiple outlets (i.e. pumps) each running an oscillate and synchronize those together. For example:

outlet #1 OSC 000:00/001:00/001:00 Then ON
outlet #2 OSC 001:00/001:00/000:00 Then ON

Outlets 1 and 2 each run for 1 minute ON and 1 minute OFF but they do so opposite each other. If they were running pumps located on opposite ends of the tank, you've essentially created a wave.

When using the oscillate, it's important to understand that all the times are strung together and repeated. So if you use all three times, remember that the 2 OFF times will be added together. For example, OSC 025:00/001:00/004:00 would look like:

OFF/ON/OFF + OFF/ON/OFF + OFF/ON/OFF + OFF/ON/OFF etc....

OFF for 25 min, ON for 1 min, OFF for 4 min, OFF for 25 min, ON for 1 min, OFF for 4 min, OFF for 25 min, etc...
------------ First complete cycle ---------|-----------Second complete cycle -----------|---- Third complete cycle --->

[Bpb]

Fantastic response thank you

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[FarmerTy]

Fantastic response thank you

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If you ever need profiles once you start programming, I have some nice ones programmed already for my system that should be basically copy and paste for the Tunzes as I use then for my Jaebos.

[Bpb]

Ty, send those over to me or post here when you get a chance. My first pump is coming in the mail this week and I'll likely order another and sell the vortech and run dual tunzes. Selling the vortech and buying another tunze is cheaper than buying a wxm module and keeping the vortech.

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[FarmerTy]

You got it sir.

Quick summary:

Variable Dimming port programs (both left and right) and 3 timer programs are all outlet configurations. You'll need to setup virtual outlets for Timer 1-3 to program them. You can delete all the other virtual outlets that are created as they are not needed. You will need to do this with the normal control panel, not ApexFusion. The Timer outlet programs are a way to somewhat randomize programs through the day between specific times so your tank is always switching between the 3 Timer programs over the default set background program. For instance, from 15:00-23:59, my Apex will be running Lt_Flush and Rt_Flush as my default background and then throughout the day, Timer 1-3 will turn on and run one of the three other programs (Dblflush, Pulse, or Wave2) during that time to mix it up a little.

But before you can even program any of the outlets, you'll need to create the profiles below as Apex will not accept programming outlets with profile names that don't exist yet. Kind of the chicken before the egg thing so just program your profiles first.

Variable Dimming Port program (Left Jaebo)

Set Wave1

If Time 11:30 to 14:59 Then DuskDawn

If Time 15:00 to 23:59 Then Lt_Flush

If Time 00:00 to 02:29 Then DuskDawn

If Time 02:30 to 11:29 Then Night

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then DblFlush

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then Pulse

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then Wave2

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Variable Dimming Port program (Right Jaebo)

Set Wave1

If Time 11:30 to 14:59 Then DuskDawn

If Time 15:00 to 23:59 Then Rt_Flush

If Time 00:00 to 02:29 Then DuskDawn

If Time 02:30 to 11:29 Then Night

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then DblFlush

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then Pulse

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then Wave2

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer 1 (Virtual Outlet)

OSC 120:00/010:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then OFF

If Time 00:00 to 15:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer 2 (Virtual Outlet)

OSC 045:00/015:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then OFF

If Time 00:00 to 15:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer 3 (Virtual Outlet)

OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then OFF

If Time 00:00 to 15:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Profiles

Wave1

Synchronize - yes

Divide by 10 - yes

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 9

Off Time - 3

Min Intensity - 30

Max Intensity - 70

Wave2

Synchronize - no

Divide by 10 - yes

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 7

Off Time - 4

Min Intensity - 30

Max Intensity - 80

Lt_Flush

Synchronize - no

Divide by 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 120

Off Time - 120

Min Intensity - 0

Max Intensity - 100

Rt_Flush

Synchronize - no

Divide by 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 120

On Time - 120

Off Time - 120

Min Intensity - 0

Max Intensity - 100

DuskDawn

Synchronize - yes

Divide by 10 - yes

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 7

Off Time - 4

Min Intensity - 30

Max Intensity - 60

Night

Synchronize - no

Divide by 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 10

Off Time - 10

Min Intensity - 0

Max Intensity - 30

DblFlush

Synchronize - no

Divide by 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 60

Off Time - 60

Min Intensity - 0

Max Intensity - 100

Pulse

Synchronize - yes

Divide by 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 10

Off Time - 10

Min Intensity - 0

Max Intensity - 100

Summary of my profiles:

Wave1 is a non-coordinated, smashing of both pumps. It's not synced and just random pulses.

Wave 2 is a coordinated 2-3" (vertical height) wave motion in my tank, similar to my old Tunze nano wavebox.

LtFlush is my left pump blowing at 100% for 2 minutes (alternates with RtFlush for total tank gyre flows that reverse direction...we can call this my Maspect Gyre mode)

RtFlush is my right pump blowing at 100% for 2 minutes

DblFlush should really be called export mode... as it's my Lt Flush and Rt Flush crashing into each other and stirring everything up.

DuskDawn is a very low energy wave mode to ramp things down

Night is low intensity 10 second bursts followed by 10 seconds of stillness

Pulse mode is high energy 10 second bursts followed by 10 seconds of stillness... I wanted to replicate the swells of waves going over a reef.

Hope that helps. Disclaimer, I'm not a programmer in any sense of the word but I'm quite proficient at borrowing code from others and fitting it to my needs.

[Bpb]

I really like that program. I think I'll borrow most of that. That's pretty much exactly what I had in mind plus more.

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[Bpb]

Also. Is your photoperiod from 3-midnight?

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[FarmerTy]

Yes, 3pm-midnight

[Bpb]

So I went ahead and ordered another tunze. I realize the jebao pumps are half the price, but I'm on my 3rd jebao in 2 years and i am hoping the tunzes last a little longer and I can mark powerhead purchases off the list of things to budget for in the near future. Two 6105 on my 90 gallon should be sufficient. I'll keep my mp40 as a backup.

I went ahead and copied all of your programs to try out once both pumps arrive. I reduced the max intensity where applicable due to the smaller water volume. One question. When does wave1 ever happen. I see it's the set statement on the two virtual outlets, but every minute of the day is accounted for with other profiles. Am I missing something?

[FarmerTy]

Yeah, wave1 technically doesn't ever employ with my programming. I guess I should have left open time slots when I modified the programming. It's really just a less powerful, off sync version of wave 2 so I guess I not really missing it much. Good catch!

[Bpb]

Could you just remove the "set wave1" statements from he vdm code? Or does it have to have a set statement? I'm rusty on my code rules

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[FarmerTy]

Could you just remove the "set wave1" statements from he vdm code? Or does it have to have a set statement? I'm rusty on my code rules

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You need to have a set statement so it knows what default programming to go back to if there are not any other instructions. At least that's what I understand of the programming.

[Bpb]

Well. The inventory debacle has been settled and the second tunze finally arrived. I modified the profiles slightly after seeing the power these pumps have and how my stuff is responding. It's still pretty similar but I did change a couple minor things. But I am really loving this amount of flow I have. I was concerned it may be a little much for mostly Lps and Zoas but they're all doing well. My favorite lobo has had its feeders out for 48 straight hours since getting both pumps running. Very very happy with everything overall. I'll post my full set of profiles and explanation here in a bit for anyone else who may be lurking or interested. Really the only stuff I modified I had to because of my tank size and dimensions. Obviously I had to adjust the pulse time and power to hit a resonant standing wave on my tank vs yours, and I had to really lower the power on the profiles where both pumps run, because where the streams crash will instantly blast the sand straight down to the glass and flip every coral on the sandbed if I use 100%. Thanks again for getting me started Ty

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[Bpb]

As promised for those lurking or others new to pump programming, Here is where I stand so far:

For those who don't know. Tank is 90 gallon standard (48x18x24). Eheim 1262 return pump, and the powerheads are 2xTunze 6105 units, which sport comparable flow stats to the Vortech MP40, Jebao WP40, or Jebao RW15. I have them oriented about 6" from the water surface, on either side of the tank, pointed inward directly at each other, centered just slightly forward

Profiles:

DuskDawnL

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 60

Off Time - 60

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 45

DuskDawnR

Synchronize - yes

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 60

On Time - 60

Off Time - 0

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 45

These profiles are the setting my pumps are on during the "actinic" only period in the "morning" and "evening" before and after the main daylight period. As you can see it's an alternating 1 minute time left then right at 45% intensity

Lt_Flush

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 120

Off Time - 120

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 75

Rt_Flush

Synchronize - yes

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 120

On Time - 120

Off Time - 0

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 75

This is my main setting during daylight hours. Like Ty called it, it's like "gyre mode." Left pump blasts for 2 minutes, right pump blasts for 2 minutes. 75% intensity is about all the tank can stand. With the wide flow attatchments these pumps move a massive wall of water and have a strong enough undertow to lift food off the corners on the opposite end and pull them back to the pump. I've been able to really draw out a ton of detritus with this and the LPS are in constant feeding response.

NightL

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 30

Off Time - 30

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 35

NightR

Synchronize - yes

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 30

On Time - 30

Off Time - 0

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 35

This is my dark period program. As you can see it mimics the other two, but shorter run time for each powerhead, and at lower percentage. I still get great surface agitation, but the fish are at least able to hold in place to sleep. I wanted to go lower power but the pumps sieze up if i try to run them at 30% or lower, so 35% it is just to be safe.

These make up the main profiles. I like them because I dont want random chaotic flow all the time. I know alot of people really hype that up as a great thing but I'm not so sure I agree. While the ocean can be turbulent at times, generally currents have an ebb and flow, a back and forth. Water comes in and goes out. What I like about these pumps over the Vortechs is they push water forward incredibly well. The vortechs are great but the flow is much choppier and current tends to dissipate about halfway down the tank.

The next three profiles are the "nutrient export" profiles as it were. It's not identical to the ecotech nutrient export, but it helps to serve as a change up to avoid dead spots and kinda give the tank random periodic blasts to keep detritus suspended.

WaveL

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - yes

Initial Off Time - 8

On Time - 8

Off Time - 0

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 60

WaveR

Synchronize - yes

Divide By 10 - yes

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 8

Off Time - 8

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 60

This is a powerful standing wave. Took some tweaking and watching to find the resonant peak of the tank and rock work, but this is a large 2" standing wave which brings the water well below the tank rim and up to touching the lip of the tank rim

Pulse

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 10

Off Time - 10

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 75

This is a setting where both pumps blast for 10 seconds right at each other, then total stillness for 10 seconds. Freaks the fish out a little, but the point of contact of the current creates a violent result that really blasts the rocks and sand free of detritus, especially in the center of the tank

DblFlush

Synchronize - no

Divide By 10 - no

Initial Off Time - 0

On Time - 60

Off Time - 60

Minimum Intensity - 0

Maximum Intensity - 50

Longer and slightly less intense version of Pulse. Serves a similar purpose but gives the flow a longer rest period.

Virtual Timers - These are the oscillating timers that serve to control the nutrient export profiles. They are as follows

Timer1

OSC 120:00/010:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then OFF

If Time 22:00 to 10:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer2

OSC 045:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then OFF

If Time 22:00 to 10:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

Timer3

OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then OFF

If Time 22:00 to 10:00 Then OFF

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

VDM Programs - This is where I designate what runs when

L_Tunze

Set Lt_Flush

If Time 10:00 to 11:59 Then DuskDawnL

If Time 12:00 to 19:59 Then Lt_Flush

If Time 20:00 to 21:59 Then DuskDawnL

If Time 22:00 to 23:59 Then NightL

If Time 00:00 to 09:59 Then NightL

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then DblFlush

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then Pulse

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then WaveL

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

If FeedB 000 Then OFF

R_Tunze

Set Rt_Flush

If Time 10:00 to 11:59 Then DuskDawnR

If Time 12:00 to 19:59 Then Rt_Flush

If Time 20:00 to 21:59 Then DuskDawnR

If Time 22:00 to 23:59 Then NightR

If Time 00:00 to 09:59 Then NightR

If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then DblFlush

If Outlet Timer2 = ON Then Pulse

If Outlet Timer3 = ON Then WaveR

If FeedA 000 Then OFF

If FeedB 000 Then OFF

There you have it. All in all I'm very satisfied with the program. I appreciate it Ty for helping me get started, and after researching more on the Neptune forums, it appears most Tunze/Jebao users are doing more or less the same type of program, with slightly modified intensities and on times. Again, couldn't be happier with these pumps. The Jebao pumps were good for what they were, but I replaced 3 inside of 2 years, and I wasnt overly happy with the noise, choppiness of flow, and expense of repairs on the Vortech. These powerheads came at a fantastic price and If they last me 5 years I'll be happy. Hope this can help someone

[FarmerTy]

Your welcome sir. Pulse mode is my favorite mode these days as I feel it replicates mother nature well with the ebb and flow and current and stillness... Repeated.

I'm still a big fan of the rotating gyres too. Gives good total flow and alternates to keep acros from growing directionally with a static laminar flow.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

So when do the timer1-3 outlets kick in? I'm trying to figure out when they are allowed in to the sequence, or are they triggered by something else?

[FarmerTy]

So when do the timer1-3 outlets kick in? I'm trying to figure out when they are allowed in to the sequence, or are they triggered by something else?

They have a time set when they randomly come on. You can adjust that time frame. I borrowed the code so can't tell you anymore than that.

[Bpb]

If you look, the timers are on during daylight hours, and they activate various pump profiles based on their oscillation timers, which will by design overlap so the daily program will never be identical and will have some variation due to their checks and balances. Fwiw I had to turn off all those. It was too intense. I just use the left/right alternating gyre flow every 2 minutes

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[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

"A time set to randomly turn on"? what what what?

Hahaha, I think I need to look at how they all interconnect a little closer

[Bpb]

It only seems random at a glance of the tank. It's not actually random

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[Bpb]

It's a cool program that is probably better suited for longer taller tanks than what I've got. The downward blast when both streams collide is way too much. Flips small rocks and Zoa colonies like tumbleweeds

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[ShawnM]

Like the Wild Wild West may the strong survive