anemone not finding a happy spot

[nvrEnuf]

So, this isn't an emergency...but I didn't see what seemed to be a more fitting category; let me know if there was a more proper place.

I bought my first anemone (purple LTA) from aquadome two + weeks ago. Mild pink body, clear spots on sheeth, no abrasions, perfectly healthy. I built a ruble pile with a concave in the bottom center of the tank under light flow and high light (46gal BF 36" 4 bulb T5 w/ 12" BMled mounted front and center of the T5 fixture) and started there. In the two weeks since the anemone has always left it's placement, I have tried every combination of mild or lower flow at all light levels. (please note here that I don't post a lot because I do my research and partially have a saltwater tank because I was almost a marine biologist... I LOVE the science of the tank almost as much as the astectics. When I say I have tried all combinations I mean I am not writing this post because it was easier than doing the dilligence that one should in this hobby.)

Beacuse someone will ask as if I am an idiot for not posting: 46BF+12gal sump w/fuge; miracle mud, protien skimmer, GFO and carbon single. 80F, 0 what should be (and I mean 0) calcium >400, hardness has been 1 to 2 PPM high as I have been dialing in buffering (still a rookie). Top off's done via drip dialy.

So, the anemone has been in a "ruble pile" at the bottom, top, center, left, right etc...and still hasn't attached to anything except upside down for a short time (a few hours) on the shaft of my coco worm in low flow and medium light near the bottom of the tank.

My question is this: any recomendations to do something different?? over two weeks this thing has had the chance to attach to any portion of the tank it chose, but hasn't. I've seen it attach to the cocoworm, as well as hold small crushed coral, as well as close every night. I have no reason to beleive this is a health issue (oh yeah, it's eaten squid two weekends in a row). Suggestions (including "shut up and be patient" welcome....) I don't ask questions because I think the answers are alreaduy out there, but I can't find an answer to this. I am worried it's gping to end up munched by a circulation pump, and want to make sure I have done everything I can to prevent it. I know things just happen and I am cool with that; this is still a young tank by old standards. However, this seems to be a paradox I don't find any reading on...thus my post.

One last thing : it was attached to the glass near te top of the tank in aquadome the day I bought it; 15 minute ride to the house, drip acclimated for 1.5 hours with 15 minute interval increase from .5/sec drip to 2/sec drip until all purchased water was rinsed. Fully open, closed mouth when introduced to the display.

Any help (even links any idoit should have come across with a sinple search[which I think I have exhausted] would produce) would be greatly appreciated.

Am I worried about nothing??

[Sherita]

Ok, the nem sounds healthy enough, so lets looks at a few other things.

What are you using for powerheads? How many? Do you dial them down at night? And do they have sponge covers on them (to prevent said anemone ingestion).

What is your mg levels? And what are the other inhabitants of your tank? Any clowns in there?

My first suggestion for an LTA would be to shut the powerheads completely down and give it a chance to decide where it wants to go. They can be weird. Anemones are like cats, you can't make them do anything. It has to be their idea. With the ones I have kept, I've had the best luck just shutting the powerheads down and letting them walk to where they want to be.

That's just my opinon. That and a couple bux will get you a cup of coffee

[Jimbo662]

When I first got my RBTA it moved about every one-two weeks for almost 3 months till it found just the right spot.

[mFrame]

I'm an anemone guy. I can grow and have success with just about all of them: BTA, RBTA, rock anemones, tube anemones, you name it. I've bitten the bait and twice bought gorgeous LTAs from the Dome only to have them wander in my tank, not attach, and ultimately die. I've tried just about everything. The reason I say this is that LTAs can obviously be difficult.

I finally settled on the idea that they don't like the other anemones in my tank. I've researched and read numerous articles that say that LTAs don't like tanks with BTAs in them (despite seeing the massive tank at the dome that has nems of all types in it). So, what other livestock do you have in the tank?

Try the things listed above, see if you can find somewhere for it to settle. The closest I came to success was when I provided a 4" piece of pvc with live rock rubble and sand in the bottom. One of the LTAs stayed in it for almost 10 days, opening to feed, before it ballooned up and started drifting all over the tank.

Best of luck, and let us know if you figure it out.

[kingjames]

had mine for 4 years now and he really is only happy w his foot buried between sand and a rock, a pretty coarse substrate is really the best with these guys in my opinion, mine will still wander around a bit but funny he always ends back at the same spot evertime.

I think mike is right about the LTA not getting along with other nems, I have tried to put several bubble anemones in the same tank and they always move around and shrink and disapear after about six months. My LTA is huge though (12 plus inches) and the bubbles were always smaller and my water param are for the most part stable, so i always believed it was some kind of warfare going on, but just my opinion

[Timfish]

If you figure it out let me know so I can write a book on it. I think Sherita's observation of the similarities between anemones and cats is pretty dead on.

[nvrEnuf]

Thanks for all the responses everyone!

First; I will answer direct questions:

MG= 9-11 but most often 10; as staded above I drip my top off, so, depending on how long ago I topped off.

Stock: Tank is currently fallow due to ich 4.5 weeks ago. No treatments in DT, no cross contamination from QT which is in a seperate part of the house. And just to point out, my house has been amonia free since before I brought the tank home. No windex, NOTHING that has amonia in it in the house. Knowing the tank would be fallow for 10 weeks I bought a few corals up to 2 weeks into the fallow period just to have something to do while I was waiting [(patience is not my strong suit but the hobby seems to be changing that) my thinking here was that up to 2 weeks into the 10 week fallow period I would only be adding dormant ICH if any leaving 8 weeks to hatch, free swim and die vs the possible freshly hatched in the DT which I wanted to give a full 10]. Most fish died from the ICH (before removing to DT) and the remaining due to related stress of the QT...I am now down from 5 to just a citron gobby, but to answer the direct question there was never a clown though I am open to one in another 6 weeks! This is really irrelevant since there was no fish in the tank when the nem was introduced.

non-fish: a few zoa's, a toad, 2 species of mushrooms, devils' hand, small chalice, torch, hammer, coco worm and feather duster on same tube; all purchased as small frags. 50+ lbs live rock (45 in DT and 5 in fuge), crushed coral substrate (no sand). Skunk, peppermint, and fire shrimp (1 each), porcelain fan crab, bumble bee, basic CUC. So, there is PLENTY of room for everyone and lots more. My main goal of adding the LTA now was to let him settle before I started epoxying to secure frags in thier final place.

A few more bits of info that COULD have something to do with something (though I doubt it): I am still running a skimmer despite being fallow. I know I don't HAVE to, but I am running it due to continuing to feed cyclopeeze and a bit of leftover new tank syndrome from the transfer. Which, brings me to the second might be usefull tid-bit: This system was transfered from a 29 gal cube about 4 months ago. I obtained the stocked (FOWLR) cube from an apartment unit where an eviction had taken place and therfor had NO history. It was in horrible shape, my first experience with aquariums AT ALL, and I now beleive had ICH when I got it. The fish that came with that system did fairly well while I learned the ropes, but I now beleive was the source of the ICH. The only thing now left from that system is the live rock. There is now NO algea in my DT; green and cyno are COMPLEETLY eradicated. Even to the point I beleive this is why my emerald crab died. I feed squid on the weekends to crabs, shrimp, and twice now to the nem which has seemed eager to accept (though with no experience I don't know the difference betweeen eager and not).

Circulation: MJ 1200, Hydor (I can't recall, but about the same flow rate). One one left, one on right opposing, near top front pointed slightly forward. The most flow is just in front of pumps (obviously) as well as at center of tank from front to back where the two fans meet creating turbulence. Rio 1400 return pump with loc-line on right side of overflow pointing towards front of tank which extends the turbulance further to the right side of the DT when facing it.

SOOOO, What I am mainly hearing is to turn the circ pumps off for a few days. I think the only coral who won't like this idea a lot is the toad who was recently moved up and into a medium+ flow range with higher par and seems to be LOVING it; it has really grown in the past few weeks. The shrooms wont be offended at all and the torch and hammer should be fine, obviously the "worms" won't care at all. The hand is in the flow range of the return so should also still be fine. No SPS so no real concern, right?

The PVC comment also makes me wonder if using that as a "holder" until the NEM crawls out might be a good idea. As in, place PVC add nem and then retry in another spot I think it might like after it has shown it didn't like the previous might add to chance of success? But then, how do I get that ugly piece of PVC out of the DT once the nem has found it's happy spot?

Almost finally one more question: If the nem finds a spot it likes with the pumps off, what happens when they come back on?? doesn't that change the dynamics of the tank (even if you adjust the circ pumps to keep the nem out of high flow) isn't it going to go in search of a new spot it likes now that the dynamics have changed??

Again, thanks for all the respones..this is FAR from an emergency since I knew when I bought this thing what I was getting into. My understanding is that this is possibly the most finickey specimine I will ever add to my tank (agreed clams are neck and neck). I have had better luck with the Dome's livestock than anywhere else in town and this was the best of 4 examples when I bought it...all 4 looked perfectly healthy and I had done a good amount of research in what to look for when purchasing before I went in. Hunter, Garry and I have had at least one run in where I called them out for treating me like the average village idiot and he knows now that it is better to say "Jason, this is not for you" than to sell me something I don't need/want or is not in perfect health; a long term happy customer is far better than a short lived rich one! I am not overly stressed about this since I knew there was a fair chance of failure. But, as I said (in not so many words) I'd like to have this nailed down and put behind me so I can focus on other things. As I understand it the placement of the rest of my tank revolves around where this nem decides to settle.

Once again, thanks so much for all of your input!

[Sascha D.]

It makes me sad that you seem to have such a dismal view of the SW community, but I'm guessing there are a few bad experiences behind that. I guess everyone has had a few questionable encounters. I was on ReefCentral for a little while before ARC, but those people make me want to poke out my own eyes with my skimmer collection cup!

I've tried putting a BTA into a PVC sanctuary until they were attached. It didn't work and it just climbed out over night. I did have success putting one into a fish bagger with a piece of LR.

All of the successful LTA's I've seen were seated in the sand, high light, medium current. Some of them had clownfish and some of them didn't. I understand LTA's to be the opposite of BTA, in that they like to bury part of their disc in the sand but keep most of it exposed, while BTA hides it's whole disc in the LR.

[Timfish]

nvrEnuf, reading over your posts I don't see any thing wrong with what you're doing. Your comment "green and cyno are COMPLEETLY eradicated" makes me wonder if you may have dropped your nutrients to low (also tells me you're as good a speller as I am ). In all this low nutrient hype over the last few years it seems to have been forgotten our animals using Symbodinium spp dinoflagellates NEED nitrogenous compounds (ammonia and nitrates) and phosphates. I would check my nitrates and especially my phosphates, having phosphates too low will kill corals faster than too high. If I might add while it's easy to try to catagorize our corals into groups like "SPS" or "LPS" or "softies", etc., in reality these broad labels have absolutely no relevance to an animals husbandry requirements. Just looking at the distribution of the species in the Acropora genus we see individual species living in mutually exclusive environments, the ever popular Poccilopora damicornis is an "SPS" that is found in mangrove swamps. Beside making a plug for Delbeek and Sprungs "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III (now available on itunes) here's some additional research if you are interested:

Clownfish benefit anemones:

http://www.mendeley.com/research/effects-anemonefish-giant-sea-anemones-ammonium-uptake-zooxanthella-content-tissue-regeneration/

Phosphate requirements:

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/16/2749.full

[mFrame]

As for turning the pumps off and the pvc, I've found once the anemone attaches -- in this case once he gets his foot attached to the glass or underlying rock -- he'll most likely stay there. The pvc can then be pulled out and pumps turned back on. If the nem isn't happy it will move again, but once it attaches I'd let it settle for a day or two without making changes. Feed it, normal light cycle, etc, and let it acclimate that way. Ultimately it will do what it wants, all you can do is try to baby it into being happy.

[Wade]

Ive had a BTA for a few months now and it still can't find it's happy place. It's ben at the top of the tank between the side wall and the wave box for about a week now, but I'm not counting on him staying there. I now wish i hadn't got it to be truthfull because now I'm always concerned that it'll decide to go walkabout and start stinging my other stuff. I hate cats.

[Timfish]

. . . I hate cats.

Gotta talk to the powers that be about changing membership requirements! (Actually one reason I like cats is unlike spouses, significant others, children and dogs it's still legal to lock them up in a closet when I get tired of them whining )

It's funny (or sad) but BTA's have caused me a lot more grief and expense than all the other "pests" combined.

[(Bio)³]

My nems move daily but are secured in their own tank to avoid corals. I purposely only put flow on the rocks via loc line and they don't leave it except for the mmc he is just a loner. Its just a subtle flow, clowns and anemone crab don't mind either.

[Timfish]

(Bio³), good to see your anemones are doing so well after your move! Also good example of how brainless clones can demonstrate differences in their preference for environmental conditions (I'm assuming all these are the same clone line).

[(Bio)³]

(Bio³), good to see your anemones are doing so well after your move!  Also good example of how brainless clones can demonstrate differences in their preference for environmental conditions (I'm assuming all these are the same clone line).

All rbta are the same lineage from Mr Rogers. The two pink came from a wholesale order via hydro. Both pink arrived as just disc with not tentacles.

I buy whole shrimp at a local market and use the head meat to treat them about once a month. Otherwise I drop pellets in the return pump and it spits pellets right into their flow.

[Wade]

That's a great idea! A seperate cube just for anenome and clown fish. Do you have full filtration on that (skimmer, sump, the whole enchilada)? That would be so cool to have as a free standing little tank and a single pendulum light haning overhead. Nice work.

[(Bio)³]

That cube is plumbed to a 75 gallon sump with a reef octopus rated at 425 gallons. Gfo and gac reactors. Also it has a 34 gallon DSA neo nano tied in that's holding frags. Sump has some macro in the chamber past the verticle bubble trap also. All of it is running off a mag 18 pump with manifold.

[Wade]

So as not to hijack this post, I'm going to take the cube questions offline. Thanks Bio.