Mindflux Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) A while back, I switched out my 24" 4 bulb T5HO rig for a AI Nano Sol for my 34g Solana, since then.. it seems regardless of the output settings I have my coral have all been receding except my red mushrooms. My small rock of 30+ Dragon eye zoas is down to half a dozen that never open, my pulsing xenia is now barely 1.5" tall vs 4+, my 8 head candy cane coral is down to two but are not longer 'meaty' either, my torch coral as of this morning seems to be about half dead... Yellow eyelash polyps went from a spilling over frag plug to a dozen, my green and red star polyps are shrinking. Nothing on this tank has changed other than the lighting and the quantity of fish. (I had a couple jumpers)... I started the AI at 30% output and gradually moved upward week per week to about 60%... I recently moved to 70-80% thinking I wasn't bright enough but that seems it may have done more harm than good (especially my torch). Most of these corals like 'dirty' water, so my water changes are 5 gallons every month or maybe a little more. I don't have any water specs for you other than my SG is 1.022 right now and the temperature is about 80F. My LFS suggested I bring some water in which I'll be doing soon but given that everything was thriving pretty well with the T5s I can't help but point to the LEDs here... Does any have any light output suggestions on my tank with this light or a general rule of thumb (aside from Watts per Gallon which don't apply well to LEDs)...? I've been fighting some GHA and Cyano lately,but those are mostly under control.. this decline in my corals has been happening for months. Edited August 6, 2012 by Mindflux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What's your temperature been like over the last few months? Any chance you're running a controller have been tracking temp/ph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10gReef Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 maybe try buying water for your next few changes to get them to bounce back. then test your homemade water and adjust accordingly. best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 What's your temperature been like over the last few months? Any chance you're running a controller have been tracking temp/ph? Tank is pretty steady at 80F... I don't have a way to track it, but I monitor it pretty closely especially when it's warmer. maybe try buying water for your next few changes to get them to bounce back. then test your homemade water and adjust accordingly. best of luck. Last few changes have been water from RCA as opposed to my water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but since I have an AI Sol light, I tend to catch threads about them on various forums. This seems rather common actually. Happened to me when I switched. AIs are major par outputters (that's not a word, I don't think). Even starting at a low setting it was probably pretty bright. Bumping up every week can be too fast from what I hear. I don't know how much you bumped up every week of course. This is kind of a shot in the dark, but once you've ruled everything else out, try turning your light way down and see how things react through the weeks. Like *way* down, even to where you started out. When I moved my light to over my nano, I was shocked at how low I'm running the light and all of my corals are thriving. LEDs can sure fool the eye! Anyway, good luck figuring out what the problem could be. It's very frustrating to watch your corals recede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but since I have an AI Sol light, I tend to catch threads about them on various forums. This seems rather common actually. Happened to me when I switched. AIs are major par outputters (that's not a word, I don't think). Even starting at a low setting it was probably pretty bright. Bumping up every week can be too fast from what I hear. I don't know how much you bumped up every week of course. This is kind of a shot in the dark, but once you've ruled everything else out, try turning your light way down and see how things react through the weeks. Like *way* down, even to where you started out. When I moved my light to over my nano, I was shocked at how low I'm running the light and all of my corals are thriving. LEDs can sure fool the eye! Anyway, good luck figuring out what the problem could be. It's very frustrating to watch your corals recede. Ok, I'll get my water tested and turn this thing way down I guess. It just seems (I have it set back at 45% W, 55% B/BL) and it just seems dim compared to what I remember my T5HOs putting out, but I guess they are more "focused" rather than a wide beam so maybe that's part of it. I wish there was a guideline I could find on how much is enough but not too much for the AI Nano on a tank my size.. since you can't compare wattage of lights per gallon of water like T5HO and MHs. I've also asked AI for their recommendations, waiting for a reply. Edited August 6, 2012 by Mindflux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 You could borrow the par meter available to the club. That's your best bet. If you have your T5 still, you can put that on your tank, measure par, then put back on the AI and see what % equals the par of your T5 at different levels. You can't trust your eyes at all comparing T5 to LED. The LEDs will end up being way too bright if your eyes think they look the same. If that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 You could borrow the par meter available to the club. That's your best bet. If you have your T5 still, you can put that on your tank, measure par, then put back on the AI and see what % equals the par of your T5 at different levels. You can't trust your eyes at all comparing T5 to LED. The LEDs will end up being way too bright if your eyes think they look the same. If that makes sense. Yeah I don't have my T5's anymore, they went to a friend who's hood went out on their biocube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 +1 on LEDS being too bright, and definitely get your water tested. As corals grow, they suck up more supplements (calc/alk/mag). If you are not dosing, and only doing small monthly water changes, then you are not replenishing these elements. Since you don't have too huge of colonies or corals that would suck up a whole lot of these, the gradual decline in elements would mirror your gradual recession. I would suspect it's both over-lighting and lack of supplementation, in tandem. Your salinity is a little low too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) Ok, per my old Hagen master test kit: Ca: 440ppm KH: 110mg/L Nitrate: 5mg/L Nitrite: Did not test pH: 8.1-8.3 SG (prior): 1.022G Temp: 80F According to my Hagen manuals these are all within tolerances, if not nearly spot on. Edited August 7, 2012 by Mindflux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 +1 on LEDS being too bright, and definitely get your water tested. As corals grow, they suck up more supplements (calc/alk/mag). If you are not dosing, and only doing small monthly water changes, then you are not replenishing these elements. Since you don't have too huge of colonies or corals that would suck up a whole lot of these, the gradual decline in elements would mirror your gradual recession. I would suspect it's both over-lighting and lack of supplementation, in tandem. Your salinity is a little low too... I'll work toward more frequent changes again for water. FWIW the water I got from RCA yesterday read 1.020 from my refractometer (calibrated with cal fluid) and when I prodded them about it they said 'it was fine'. I imagine my last two W.C's from RCA are the reason for my S.G being low as I shoot for 35 PPT (1.026SG) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad and Belinda Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I tried sending you a PM but it says you can't receive any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Nope. Was a full inbox. Try again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ok. If my KH is 110mg/L it seems I am low on alkalinity. I am going to retest this again to account for user error. If my alk is low how can I safely raise it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Dose :-) I like the ESV B Ionic brand products myself. RCA carries them. Make sure you test magnesium too, LPS (candy canes, torch) are very sensitive to it. When my LPS look bad it's almost always because my mag is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Dose :-) I like the ESV B Ionic brand products myself. RCA carries them. Make sure you test magnesium too, LPS (candy canes, torch) are very sensitive to it. When my LPS look bad it's almost always because my mag is low. I don't have a mag test. I'm not sure if I have enough coral (even when they were thriving) to dose, given that most of my stuff was softies. Perhaps I could read up on kalkwasser... I'm still thinking it's the LEDs. I've cranked them way down to see if I can get some things to perk up. Edited August 7, 2012 by Mindflux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+olaggie01 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd lower the % of your AIs. LEDs are little point source emitters (like mini MHs). I would back it down to 30% across the board, get your salinity up to 35 PPT and wait and see. If you salinity is at NSW levels, then your alk should rise as well. Keep them within NSW and everything should recover. You haven't seen any pests have you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd lower the % of your AIs. LEDs are little point source emitters (like mini MHs). I would back it down to 30% across the board, get your salinity up to 35 PPT and wait and see. If you salinity is at NSW levels, then your alk should rise as well. Keep them within NSW and everything should recover. You haven't seen any pests have you? Nothing pest wise except a bristle worm I haven't seen in a really long time. I've got the LED's set at 30% W, 40% B/BL right now... I'll drop it more this evening... and I'm working toward 35PPT... got some saltwater in my ATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Oh I should mention.. my lights are on a 5-6 hour schedule right now. They were on a 10+ hour but I dialed it back to help with GHA several weeks ago. I don't think the decline of my coral has gotten any 'quicker' with less light per day... nor has it slowed it down nearest I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 If your phosphate levels are high and your still experiencing a GHA problem then that could be a culpret as well. My corals looks bad but now that I tackled the algae issue I'm getting out of control grown. Check your return pump filter and skimmer collection cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I have heard so many stories of people buying AI's only to sell them when all their corals die months later. I was going to switch back to T5 or halides after running LED for a while since I figured they just didnt have the "guts". Thats backwards, like olaggie says, they are mini halides in a way. So in short turn them down.....I run my whites at 30% and my blues at 65% max. Any higher and all my zoas retract and nothing looks happy. I had a nem that would hide every time the lights came on and I have them on a ramp so its no "shell shock" when they turn on. Good LED are seriously underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 If your phosphate levels are high and your still experiencing a GHA problem then that could be a culpret as well. My corals looks bad but now that I tackled the algae issue I'm getting out of control grown. Check your return pump filter and skimmer collection cup. GHA is pretty much under control now, very little left. Skimmer has been acting a bit weird since I put some GFO in (in a nylon sock)..... it's not collecting much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 This is what AI is suggesting for me: Timer1: 9AM W30 B30 RB30 RAMP 60 Minutes, Lunar OFF Timer2: 12PM W50 B50 RB50 RAMP 60 Minutes, Lunar OFF Timer3: 5PM W01 B03 RB04 RAMP 180 Minutes, Lunar On or Off whichever you prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 so 50% max. Seems the blues "burn" more than the whites IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 so 50% max. Seems the blues "burn" more than the whites IMO. That's what he's suggesting. I've got 'em set at max of 40% today from 3:30 to 9:30 or maybe 10:00.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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