subsea Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thermal expansion from 400W MH broke the center brace on my 135G tank. I have seen no "bow out" movement of the glass. I understand the manufactures need to install center brace. It was my intention to remove the broken glass first. From aquascaping and light penetration the 1/2" brace is a detriment. I am looking to install a tension cable to pull the glass together at the top. While I have not seen this in the aquarium trade, it seems engineeringly simple. A stainless turnbuckle with clips and stainless threaded rod. Does anyone know where stainless turnbuckles are available locally? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Austin bolt and supply may carry them, if not they can get them in I'm sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michae52 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 How wide is the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 An easy place for high quality stainless bits is "West Marine". You can buy online or locally at Burnet and 183 by the Chili's. Here is a link to a really slick unit for only $26. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=44489&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50045&subdeptNum=50088&classNum=50095 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Thanks. I'll check them out in the morning. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 cafermike, I like the marine stuff. I could not get an exact length from the website. I will go there. I also need the clips to secure the glass at the top plastic molding. The other Mike, Mr Smith. The outside dimension is 24 17/32". Just a hair over 24.5". Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyStuff Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Looking at how AGA braces some of thier big tanks with just plastic cross bracing an inch or two wide I'd be inclined to think steel cable is a bit of an overkill. My wildly speculative guess is the reason aquarium manufacturers use glass is for simplicity of construction and appearence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshel1217 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Patrick, your brace most likely did not break from thermal expansion. Glass has one of the lowest thermal expansion coefficients outside quartz and a few others. I know this doesnt help your problem now but you might want to look into something else that caused the problem. If the glass is flexing or vibrating cables could break the side panels. God speed and Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsquared Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I own a wire rope company here in town and we stock all kinds of stainless steel fittings and cable for architectual cable railings. Pm me and I will give you our phone # and address. Don't buy them at West Marine they are way overpriced. I will give you a good deal. Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshel1217 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I own a wire rope company here in town and we stock all kinds of stainless steel fittings and cable for architectual cable railings. Pm me and I will give you our phone # and address. Don't buy them at West Marine they are way overpriced. I will give you a good deal. Thanks, David Do you sell the stuff needed for light harnesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 You can always install some 1/4" x 2.5" x 6' eurobraces instead. The glass is cheap. Just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 David, PM sent. In my case, I suspect that 1/8" or smaller cable or single wire strand, for that matter. I only need to pull a pound or so of tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hydro, where is this eurobracing available for me to see and determine if it is fit for purpose. Have you used it before? Is gluing required or does it clamp on outside of glass? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 I own a wire rope company here in town and we stock all kinds of stainless steel fittings and cable for architectual cable railings. Pm me and I will give you our phone # and address. Don't buy them at West Marine they are way overpriced. I will give you a good deal. Thanks, David Do you sell the stuff needed for light harnesses? You have made me think of another option to fix my situation that may well work for your light harnesses. In the salt water fishing tackle will be different size stainless steel leader material. I am going to Academy before it closes. Thank you. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 The academy here in Austin does not carry "deep sea" fishing tackle. However, I purchased a spring loaded potentiameter (scale) and used rubber tie down straps to apply 10 pounds of tension at top of front and back glass. When the glass brace broke last night, it was 1 AM. I was in my lounge chair about five feet away and it made me jump. I am glad that I did not have the surge up and running. I may have instead been surfing in my lounge chair. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Patrick, your brace most likely did not break from thermal expansion. Glass has one of the lowest thermal expansion coefficients outside quartz and a few others. I know this doesnt help your problem now but you might want to look into something else that caused the problem. If the glass is flexing or vibrating cables could break the side panels. God speed and Good luck Have you touched a 400W MH fixture. My bulb was 3" from the glass. While what I did may be stupid, it is what broke the braching. Consider between 200-300 degrees on the middle section of the 24" span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsquared Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I own a wire rope company here in town and we stock all kinds of stainless steel fittings and cable for architectual cable railings. Pm me and I will give you our phone # and address. Don't buy them at West Marine they are way overpriced. I will give you a good deal. Thanks, David Do you sell the stuff needed for light harnesses? We don't stock the push & lock fittings but I do stock an assortment of clips, sleeves & small cable. We mostly sale this type stuff as railings but do have some customers that use it for sail boat rigging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshel1217 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Patrick, your brace most likely did not break from thermal expansion. Glass has one of the lowest thermal expansion coefficients outside quartz and a few others. I know this doesnt help your problem now but you might want to look into something else that caused the problem. If the glass is flexing or vibrating cables could break the side panels. God speed and Good luck Have you touched a 400W MH fixture. My bulb was 3" from the glass. While what I did may be stupid, it is what broke the braching. Consider between 200-300 degrees on the middle section of the 24" span. Ok man, if you say so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 I found a stainless turnbuckle at Home Depot for $5. I will use some stainless leader material to connect hooks and turnbuckle. Brainstorming works, thanks. Patrick Patrick, your brace most likely did not break from thermal expansion. Glass has one of the lowest thermal expansion coefficients outside quartz and a few others. I know this doesnt help your problem now but you might want to look into something else that caused the problem. If the glass is flexing or vibrating cables could break the side panels. God speed and Good luck Have you touched a 400W MH fixture. My bulb was 3" from the glass. While what I did may be stupid, it is what broke the braching. Consider between 200-300 degrees on the middle section of the 24" span. Ok man, if you say so I have a mechanical engineering degree with almost 30 years experience in the field. While on a drill ship as a rig mechanic, I worked for both the drilling department and the marine department. An experience Chief Engineer from the WWII navy showed me a thing or two about thermal expansion and heat transfer that is not taught in the books. I thought I was "knowed up" because I had my diplomas to prove how smart I was. After fighting for two days with 100 ton jacks and multiple sourches of heat, I had a different mind set about learning thermal expansion. All good things in time. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have seen glass tank lids pop/crack due to heat from double PC light strips sitting on top the glass, so it doesn't surprise me that a 400W MH fixture 3 inches above could and would do the same thing, even with thicker glass bracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Acropoorer (dale) cracked is back glass on a 300 gallon twice before he realized it was because when he slid his canopy back the lights were centered over the back glass....I'm pretty sure it was 3/4" thick. I just bought 1/2" thick glass lids for my aquarium and one of them busted the first day from the MH being above it. The others haven't broken (5) total but get really hot in the center below the light, to the point that its to hot to touch it. The eurobrace can be bought at binswanger and needs to be special ordered but they cut it in house. Just give them the ID from left to right minus 1/4", the 1/4" short is important so you can get silicone between the side pieces of glass and the eurobrace (1/8" per side gap). 1/4" thick glass is fine, 2.5" wide like I mentioned above. You can put the eurobrace on the back of the tank instead and it works the exact same way. The front brace I'm sure you would probably want to put on the inside...or both on the inside. I've done this to 6 tanks and none of them bow at all. You can tell if the bow by taking a 4' level and put it across the very top edge, if it rocks back and forth then it has a bow in it. I just used silicone on the edge of the brace, push it on to the glass, and hold it on with some clamps. If you have a bow you will want to lower the water level until the bow relaxes then install the bracing.....whatever bracing you decide to do. If you lower the water level just a few inches it will make a big difference on the pressure. Glass eurobraces for that tank wouldn't be more than $30 at most. Then you have no center bracing to deal with. If you have ever been in construction before with wood you can add a stiff back (what I've heard it called) to make wood stronger. Its when you take a boards and nail them together one flat and one vertical which makes it much stronger, eurobracing does the same thing for glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshel1217 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well d$&n i guess I'll just shut up then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yeah Dave! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 Very neat. I like it. Thanks Hydro. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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