KevinB Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 After two weeks in the DT, my kole tang and rabbitfish have started showing signs of ich. Luckily I already own a 29g, so I've started setting it up for a hospital tank. I plan to do a month of copper/light hyposalination/80 degree temps. Does this sound like the correct course of action? I was hoping to use 80% regular dechlorinated tap water, 20% DT water, and no lights. Any thoughts on that? Is it ok to use melafix at the same time? Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 From what I've read you either want to do copper OR hypo but not both. I use cupramine instead of copper, its a little easier on them from what I've read. I would suggest to get a copper test kit if using copper in a QT to make sure the levels are high enough to kill ich but not too high to kill the fish. You want to be somewhere between 3.5-5 ppm and usually this is only neccesary for 2 weeks if you maintain the proper levels during that time. Works really well. How bad are the fish? Just a few spots? Are they eating? Defintely try adding vitamins to the food and garlic, feed nori soaked in garlic too. Sometimes its better to feed them and leave them alone but that is a hard decision sometimes. If the fish are fighting at all then you should probably QT them, in order for them to recover in the DT they must not be stressed. Melafix is supposed to be for bacteria infections only I think. I tried it recently and it didn't work for the infection, the fish died. Also I think that it says on the bottle not to mix with any other medications. I really don't think that you will see any benefit from using it. About the tap water I have no idea. You want to stress the fish as little as possible and putting them in a new tank with new unconditioned water might make them worse. If you use DT water and add copper it will kill all the parasites that are introduced to the QT. If you can get your hands on a good UV sterilizer and put on the DT in a couple days you might be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 After reading some other posts on here about ich, I think I might hold off on the QT for a little while longer. The tang's behavior hasn't changed, the rabbitfish seems to be a little bit more reclusive, but is still a pig about the nori. I'm thinking moving them is going to be more risky than letting them fight it off in the DT. I'll do garlic and vitamin C additives in the tank or on the nori for a few days and see if it gets any better. As far as UV goes, I just don't have the money to drop on a decent one...but I did see this one at Petco: http://www.petco.com/product/114522/Green-Killing-Machine-Internal-UV-Sterilizer-with-Power-Head.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch Will the 50GPH be enough for a 75 Gal system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 As to the question of seting up your QT with tap water I've been using Austin tap water on one of my reef systems for 4 years with no discernable difference from tanks I'm using RO or RO/DI however if I was setting up a QT for immediate use I would use at least 80% water from my display tank. Using just 20% is good for starting the bacterial colonies but it's pretty "raw" and would need some aging. If I was going to use hyposalinity I would wait to make sure there wasn't an ammonia spike and make sure the pH and alk was the same as the display tank. I haven't messed with copper in over ten years but both copper and hyposalinity are treatments that kill the larval ich as soon as it leaves the cyst stage so I don't see any advantage in using them concurrently. I have no idea how Melafix would interact with copper and I'm pretty sure UV probably will affect it or break it down since it's a plant extract so I don't think I would use it with either of those treatments. Here's an intersting discussion on Melafix: http://www.reefland....-dont-work.html The UV you linked to might be acceptable I couldn't find any info on exactly how much UV it's putting out.. It needs to have a "killing power" of at least 45,000 æW sec/cm2 (microwatt seconds per square centimeter) at a flow rate of 35 - 40 gph or 1/2 turnover per hour, more is much better (I shoot for 2 turnover per hour or higher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I haven't messed with copper in over ten years but both copper and hyposalinity are treatments that kill the larval ich as soon as it leaves the cyst stage so I don't see any advantage in using them concurrently. Tim if you don't use copper for ich do you use hypo? Do you see any advantage of one over the other? Copper is a lttle hard to test for where as hypo would be much easier, I could see that advantage. Kevin I'm not sure about that UV but I always try to run mine below the actuall advertised flow rate like timfish recommended around 35 gph. That doesn't mean to get a pump that does 35 gph, that means that the exiting water line of the UV should put out 35 gph. I usually check this by filling up a milk jug and timing it. This would give you gpm so you can figure out gph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I have no idea how Melafix would interact with copper and I'm pretty sure UV probably will affect it or break it down since it's a plant extract so I don't think I would use it with either of those treatments. Here's an intersting discussion on Melafix: http://www.reefland....-dont-work.html Great link, I wish I would have seen this while treating the triggers, they probably would be alive at this point had I tried another medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I haven't messed with copper in over ten years but both copper and hyposalinity are treatments that kill the larval ich as soon as it leaves the cyst stage so I don't see any advantage in using them concurrently. Tim if you don't use copper for ich do you use hypo? Do you see any advantage of one over the other? Copper is a lttle hard to test for where as hypo would be much easier, I could see that advantage. Big UV, small tank is what I use now, the disadvantage is UV's heat the water so good ventilation is important the disadvantage is high evaporation. I like using live rock with scavangers and I often have inverts for my clients in my QT tanks as well which excludes both copper and hyposalinity. I think for fish only hyposalinity is better than copper. It's easier and cheaper to maintain than copper and some of the microorganism (don't ask me for a list) will adapt to hyposalinity that are killed by copper, cynobacteria does seem to do better in hyposalinity but it's easy to syphon off (think nutrient export ). Taking the time to aclimate the fish before and after takes longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Good to know. How long do you recommend take to acclimate fish to and from hypo? With copper the levels of course have to be high enough to work and they usually recommend bringing the levels up over 48 hrs. I don't like this because the fish must deal with the ich on its own until then. If you can accimate the fish to hypo sooner then I may try this instead next time. I never really looked in to it to much, I always just used cupramine which once the dose is high enough the fish clear up fast. When hypo is reached does it only kill the free swimming parasite? Will hypo kill flukes and internal parasites like a FW dip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Does Cupramine reccommend taking 48 hrs now? It has been a long time but I don't remmember that reccomendation when I used to use it. When I acclimated fish to lower salinity I would use a drip and take hours to do it. Moving them back to normal salinity I would usually take a couple of days. It has been a long time since Iv'e used either so get some other opinions. As far as I know there is no effective treatment for internal parasites and as a fishes internal salinity is around 1.007 (if I remember correctly) I wouldn't expect hyposalinity to work anyway. I don't know if hyposalinity would work on intestinal parasites, again it's been a while since I used it and the last I read on it hyposalinity was only used for external parasites that can't tolerate changes in salinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Gotcha and thanks. Yes cupramine recommends a 1/2 dose then 48hrs later a second 1/2 dose. I use prazipro for what I considered internal parasites but you are saying that a treatment like that is actually for intestinal parasites. I see what you are saying, I considered intestinal parasites internal parasites too. I recently was amazed that an athias that I had in QT that seemed really healthy pooped out about a 2" long worm after I treated with prazipro, I bet he felt atlot better afterwards lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michae52 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Kevin, How is your tank doing? Any improvement with the fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesreyn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I know every situation is different but I have a yellow belly hippo tang and a yellow finned flasher wrasse that breaks out in ich every time I add a new fish or do something that stresses them out for a while. I usually only feed every other day but when this happens I feed every day and even over feed to where they are stuffed to the gills. I also soak ALL of their food in garlic extreme for several hours. I also always have him algae strips with garlic available to eat. Usually when doing this, it all drops off within 2-3 days. I know every situation is different and it may not work for every fish but it works for mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Started soaking the nori in garlic...I couldn't afford Garlic Extreme, so I went with some "garlic juice" from heb. The rabbitfish's appetite is still consistent, and he goes after the red algae almost as much as the green. I think his coloration (mood) has improved a little bit. The tang 's appetite is still strong, and he likes the red more than the green, so he's coming around to the nori. He's still got the white specks on him, so I guess the ich is still in that phase. I got a UV sterilizer and have been running it 12 on 12 off, but am about to change that to 24hrs tonight or tomorrow. Everything else is looking fine, my cleaner shrimp molted and my son asked when I bought another shrimp...threw me for a loop when I saw the second set of antennae! Other than that the fish appear to be ok so far...no obvious stress signs, no gulping air or swimming in front of the power heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Started soaking the nori in garlic...I couldn't afford Garlic Extreme, so I went with some "garlic juice" from heb. The rabbitfish's appetite is still consistent, and he goes after the red algae almost as much as the green. I think his coloration (mood) has improved a little bit. The tang 's appetite is still strong, and he likes the red more than the green, so he's coming around to the nori. He's still got the white specks on him, so I guess the ich is still in that phase. I got a UV sterilizer and have been running it 12 on 12 off, but am about to change that to 24hrs tonight or tomorrow. Everything else is looking fine, my cleaner shrimp molted and my son asked when I bought another shrimp...threw me for a loop when I saw the second set of antennae! Other than that the fish appear to be ok so far...no obvious stress signs, no gulping air or swimming in front of the power heads. Make sure you're using fresh garlic without preservatives. They sell a fresh minced garlic, I use the juice from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Good to know, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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