Aaarrrggg Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ok, so I'm very tempted to set up a (more or less) dedicated RBTA tank and maybe try to follow in the footsteps of mobert and see if I can raise some clowns and get a happy little family group. I had RBTAs in my last tank (55g) and they did very well, so I think I should be able to get them going no problem. I haven't ever raised clownfish before, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I get to it. Right now I need to figure out a shopping list and if this is even attainable. Tank We like to looks of the Oceanic 90g Bowfront (48"x18"x29")... although they seem hard to come by. If not Oceanic then something similar; that shape is perfect for where we have in mind. Sump If it's not RR then I'd like to get it drilled and have as large a sump as possible underneath with skimmer, ATO & heater. Anything else recommended for RBTAs? I refugium would be nice if I can fit it. Lights Would AI Sol Blues be ok for this deep a tank? How many do you think I'd need for happy RBTAs? Powerheads Some sort of Vortechs (with covers!) I'll have to investigate models for this size tank. Live Rock Marco Rock. Nice and holey for those nem feet! Stock - Flame RBTA: Thinking of "investing" in a rare one and then encouraging it to spread... hopefully start selling them off later when we get overrun. - Black Photon Clownfish Pair: see if we can make more! - Some sort of Boxfish: Odd one in the mix I know. My husband really wants a "big personality" fish and these guys certainly fit the bill. We looked around online and opinions seem mixed on their compatibility and size. - CUC: critters that could handle the boxfish! Big turbos perhaps? So what does everyone think? Doable? Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Sounds like a neat setup. You might find a regular 90 to be cheaper and available new, the dimensions are the same, except the bow obviously. A fuge should be included. Use a CF spot light with built in reflector for a fuge light, grow macro for nutrient export. I have an MP40 on my standard 75, and with it running at about 50% my nems were constantly on the move. If you get it drilled, have the return on 1 side and the powerhead on the other. Thats how mine is and with the MP40 running at ~20% both my nems are happy. Another option for "show off" fish might be one of the 'nice' triggers. I'd be a bit worried about a box fish swimming into a nem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Good advice thanks! I'm a little concerned about the prospect of a boxfish + nems as well. Seems like a recipe for ultimate destruction to me! That's interesting that there are such a thing as "nice" triggers though. He was interested in triggers too, but we ruled them out because they're generally such meanies. I'll have to investigate them. Unfortunately this project might be on the back burner for now. It all came about because we had some unfortunate deaths in my Hubby's fancy goldfish tank. That tank has been nothing but trouble, everything we try seems to blow up in our faces, (paint coming off ornaments and clouding the water, the filter not being strong enough, new filter sucking in fish!) Geeze, whoever said fresh was easier than salt was lying! I was ready to pack it in and just set up this "easier" tank instead, but we've invested so much in this freshwater tank now that we decided to keep trying for a while longer. I'm kinda bummed because I always wanted a huge RBTA tank! If anyone still has any advice though I'll be happy to listen. I definitely want to do something along these lines one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Generally speaking, the picasso (humuhumu) triggers are a little nicer (though it varies a lot by individuals). They also tend to top out at 9", and their growth slows down a lot after they hit 6". Might be a nice trigger for your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ok this is back on!!!! The goldfish tank has continued to prove disastrous, (man, freshwater is HARD!) and my 20g nano is frustrating me (went away on holiday for 9 days and came back to a nightmare!) So we're going to ditch both and setup a 90g SW where the goldie tank currently is. I did some more research into clowns and it turns out Onyx can lose their black coloring in BTA hosts...which sucks! My next idea was to get some of Sanjays Photon clowns (Onyx x B&W hybrid) in the hopes that they won't lose their black in my RBTAs (as B&Ws don't.) Well it sounds like he's all out of them for the time being, plus I don't really like the idea of me breeding siblings, so I figured I'd have a go at making my own hybrids! I went ahead and bought my 2 progenitor clowns; a female Onyx Perc and little male Domino Occy. They have been dubbed "Marley" and "Guybrush" (points for getting the reference!) (Sorry best pic I could get. Clowns are wigglesome!) So far so good, they've been happily swimming together in my 20g. The onyx was on its own, (from AlphaCorals http://alphacorals.c...sh/onyx-4.html#) so I'm hoping she's a she already. The domino was the smallest of 4 at AquaTek, so he's probably still a juvi. He seems besotted with the onyx and she's for the most part letting him follow her around. If I didn't know better, looking at them I'd say they were a pair already, but I expect things will get worse before they get better. I have a breeders net on hand in case the little domino needs a safe haven. I alllllmost got my hands on a stunning flame rbta clone, but it had sold before I could get my money down. I'm pouncing on the next one that splits. It would be great to get a few clones going in the nano so I can introduce as many as possible to the 90g when it's ready. Now I need your help. I learned a lot from tank #1 and I thought I had to nailed for #2, but here we are again. Tank #3 needs to be PERFECT! I can't spend any more money after this... heck I shouldn't really be spending this money. but I just love this hobby so much! Tank I'm now veering towards a standard shape (rather than bowfront) so that I can take photos without any glass distortion and fit the biggest sump possible underneath. I'm thinking something like this, (with stand and canopy) http://www.deepseaaq...d=89&Itemid=116 I'm not sure whether I should go with this one or collect the parts separately. Does anyone have any cost cutting ideas? Lighting I was going to go with AI Sols, but now that Ecotech has announced the Radion... http://ecotechmarine...roducts/radion/ ...Mmmm...tempting...! I do like the idea of full RGB control. I bet that would really make some flame RBTAs pop! Powerheads I've seen some people say 2 mp10s are better than 1 mp40, because you can get them working together (yay waves!) Do you think that 2 mp10s (+ return pump) would be enough flow in a 90g for RBTAs? I'm thinking maybe not for SPS, but RBTAs would probably enjoy it. It would be awesome to have them working together with the Radions too. (Night and storm mode lighting + wave action!) Sump Now sumps... here's where I really get stuck. Tank #2 was my first tank with a sump (learned that lesson from #1!) but it was a stock sump that came with the system. This is the first time I've had the opportunity to design my own. I know I want: - An algae scrubber: http://www.algaescru...c.php?f=2&t=487 I know these things are controversial, but after reading up on them I figure they're so cheap to set up I might as well give it a go. According to Joyce Wilkerson (in her Clownfishes book) RBTAs actually do better in slightly dirty water. So I'm hoping that they'd love it in the nutrient rich, (but not pollutant rich) water ATSs provide. - Room for a Skimmer. I'm going to try and avoid buying one, but I'd like space in the sump for one to go if the ATS doesn't live up to the hype. To make sure I have the right sized space, I need to have a skimmer in mind. What's a good one for a 90g? I'd also like it to be in a compartment that has a steady water lvl. The Elos Mini sump has the skimmer in a variable lvl compartment, which makes tuning it in frustrating. - ATO: I'll probably just use my Elos Digital Osmocontroller and a 5g jug. Is there any benefit to having the reservoir part of the sump, or is it better to have it something that you can remove? My Elos Mini sump has a reservoir chamber built in, which can make it tricky to fill. I like the idea of just being able to swap in 5g jugs, but worry it could be a strain on the cabinet to keep hauling them in there. There's also the option of having it plumbed in, but I'd have to have it coming from quite a distance. Maybe something I can add later? - At least a 10g refugium... preferably 15g-20g. This will be a back up home to my 2 clown parents. If all goes to plan, I'm going to try and introduce a bunch of young clowns to the 90g with the parents. I know it's not the done thing to introduce clowns to a tank with an established pair, but I'm hoping that maybe if there's enough of them, the bullying will be spread out amongst the younglings and they'll fall into line being subordinates (just like how it works in the wild.) If this doesn't work out and the parents go nuts on the new comers, I'd like somewhere that Mum and Dad can go to be alone and happy. I figured the perfect place would be down in the sump, so I'd effectively have a little broodstock tank plumbed into the main tank. Is this a good idea, or am I being silly? - Bubble and general "flotsam and jetsam" minimizing design. My Elos Mini is great but I have an awful lot of crap floating around in the water. I can't tell if it's bubbles or specks of something, but it drives me crazy! Anyone have any sump design tips for minimizing this? I understand I need some sort of bubble trap and weirs that stop stuff escaping, but I'm not really sure what the best method is. - "Silent" overflow. Well as silent as it can get. Any advice? In general if you know of any great sump design guides or sites that would be awesome! Controller Do I need one? What do you recommend and why? I like the idea of being able to monitor things from afar, but I don't like the cost that comes with it. The lights and pumps would have their own controllers, but I guess one for the thermometer would be nice. Again, I could always add it later. Stocking - Onyx x Domino clowns and baby hybrids - Flame/Sunburst RBTAs - Yasha Goby & Pistol (from my nano, I love those l'il guys!) - Maybe some Banggai Cardinalfish while we're waiting for "the great clownfish spawning" to occur. - Maybe a few zoas/softies at the bottom. - Maybe a mandarin one day when the pod population is high enough (apparently algae scrubbers are great pod factories.) I would worry about it landing on a RBTA though! - No puffers/triggers. Hubby is happy to leave them out so they won't threaten my dream tank, (he's a sweetie) Sorry, there's an awful lot of info here. I guess I'm trying to get it clear in my head as much as anything. I had Austin Aquascapes over today (nice peeps!) and they said they can build/get me anything I need. I'm just nervous about picking the right things! If anyone has any comments / advice at all I'd be happy to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Just some comments on the setup. It seems like you have it pretty well figured out. I would probably go with 2 MP10's. The reason is that even 1 MP40 will most likely end up in a bunch of wandering nems. They really don't like flow like most corals do. You get more control with the 2 MP10's. It's almost impossible to make true wave patterns with a single vortech.But with, 2 they work together perfectly. Get the brightest lighting you can. Think SPS. It will reduce the amount of feeding you need to do as they are primarily photosynthetic. Next the scrubber. I love the idea of algae scrubbers, but I don't like the DIY 5 gallon bucket or similar scrubbers. They work, but they're a fire hazard, especially when used in a tank cabinet. I know people get away with them all the time, but open clamp on lighting sitting above a bucket of water in an area prone to getting wet, is just a bad idea. As for the refugium, scrubber, skimmer, sump, etc., I think you might be overdoing it. They can do pretty well in a "dirty" tank. There's not going to be many nutrients in the tank with a skimmer, refugium, and algae scrubber going at the same time, or even with 2 of them going. If you get the fish stocking way up, you may need to stack the filtration methods, but starting out the tank will be pretty much void of nutrients with more than 1 of these going. I would probably go with one of those berlin / refugium combo sumps, and then see if I need to add a skimmer or scrubber over time. Eshops makes some pretty cool combo sumps (Eshopps Refugium R-200) that look good and function very well. Also, BTA's will host some species of porcelain crabs which is pretty cool. They make an interesting addition as well, if you don't mind them in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Some excellent points, thanks Jestep!! That's good to hear confirmation on the 2 mp10s. I do like the idea of some wave action going on with all those tentacles. It does pose the danger of possibly hypnotizing me though! I believe the Radions will do the trick for lighting. The only thing that worries me is depth (PAR rating and all that,) but I guess they must be up to the challenge because they'll no doubt go on some deeper tanks than mine. I would like to be able to generously feed the tank; to encourage the clowns to "get it on" and the RBTAs to split. So there is that to consider. I've always been very mean with my tanks, feeding the poor little buggers hardly anything, but if I can, I'd like to get a set up where I can spoil them a bit (without spoiling the water!) I guess that's one of my main draws with the algae scrubber... you can apparently "overfeed" safely. You're completely right about the fire hazard though, hmmm... that really isn't good. I wonder if there's some way I could get it working with LEDs? I know Santa Monica has his own AS product for sale: http://www.algaescru...c.php?f=2&t=502 ...maybe it would be safer than clip on lights. It's just a fair bit of cash and pretty huge. I'll investigate further. If I had an algae scrubber I'd probably go skimmerless and maybe even leave the fuge empty. I just need to make sure I have a space there for them both if the AS falls short. I'm checking out those sump recommendations now. Thanks, I hadn't realized you could actually just buy them, D'oh! I've read so many build threads where people make their own... it passed me by that you don't HAVE to do it that way. Fantastic idea about porcelain crabs! I'll definitely be doing that. I'm considering sexy shrimps as well as they take anemone hosts... the clowns could decide to eat them though, hmmm. Either way I'd wait until I had enough "spare" nems that the inverts could claim some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+C Lo Slice Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I personally love the DSA tanks. Very good build quality from all the reviews I've seen. In fact, a year from now when I'm ready to grab another tank, I'll be going with either their Neo Nano or the Neo 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 They do look nice, I don't like the fact the prices aren't on the site though. I usually find a Flash site + no prices + GORGEOUS contemporary portfolio = too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If you want to do an DIY algae scrubber, use a light like this: http://www.homedepot...catalogId=10053 Mine is in one of those clamp on flood light things with the reflector removed and grows cheato like crazy. I think I got mine at Lowes; daylight spectrum, clear front 'lens', reflective material inside the reflector. You might consider the MP20, although it might be a bit much too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ah sweet thanks Robb! Love the built in reflector; that would certainly take up less space. One tip I read for making them more safe is to actually silicone the bulbs into the holder. Of course you have to keep cutting them out every 3mths to change the bulb, but it doesn't have to be pretty and it will stop any water getting in there. I've been looking around at tanks and discovered something called a 110g tall. It's the exact same footprint as a standard 90g... just with 20g up top. I really like the shape of them. The thought of a few tall LR pillars covered in sunburst nems and clowns... Mmmmm... Ideally I'd like to get an Aqueon 110X tank and DSA 90g stand/canopy... but that is pretty expensive. I'll keep my eye on the classifieds for a bit longer. It would be nice to see some user reviews for the Radions first too... and I guess there's always a chance AI could surprise us with RGB LED pucks. I'm thinking a 110g tall might require 2 x mp20s instead of mp10s as well. They'd need a bit more oomph to circulate everything up that bit higher. I'll probably need to sell my mp10 at any rate because in my shortsightedness I bought the non-wireless one. D'oh! Anyway, there's no hurry. I have my little 20g and clowns to take the edge off and the longer I wait the more build threads I can read and learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I know aquadome and probably any one else can order the 110. I think I was quoted at around $375 for it, non reef ready, and about $300 for a 90. I've been wanting to replace my FW tank with the 110, bit it's definitely a bit steep, especially considering the RR version will add $100. Also, you can upgrade to the wireless driver for under $50 - http://ecotechmarine.com/parts-store/. It's the RF module if you have the MP10ES. You need a new driver for about $85 if you have the old MP10 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Argh I keep flip-flopping on this!! I thought I was ok, being all mature and sticking with my 20g for the time being... but then my husband made a throw-away "I'm looking forward to your new tank..." comment and it got me revved up again! I've been fretting about it so much I'm actually getting rather tired of thinking about aquariums... which is rather a strange feeling for me. Still maybe that's a more practical state to be in that unrestrained excitement(?) We solved the puffer / trigger / "character fish" dilemma. He's looking into setting up his own little puffer tank. Maybe with a Figure of 8 or Green Spot Puffer. I was thinking of maybe giving him my Elos Mini. It seems perfect for a fig of 8 puffer... 20g with a sump, which would be a bit of a luxury for a brackish tank. I contacted EcoTech and they recon the glass on a 110g would probably be too thick for a mp10. I checked online and it looks like mp20s are discontinued. I could maybe get some secondhand, but I'd worry about their compatibility with the Radions. So it looks like an mp40 would be the only answer... maybe get another one down the road and have them both set low for some waves. Argh anyway... decisions decisions. I've decided to think it over for at least a month. I'm just hoping my brain doesn't explode before then. (< inside my head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Well my "waiting a month" lasted about 7hrs... Guess this thread can be moved to the builds forum now as I just bought Chad & Belinda's beautiful 144g half circle! It's happening people... "Send in the clowns" hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pailines Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Congratulation Aaarrrggg! Keep us posted on the tank build progress! Dont skip any details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 That should be awesome. You can fit quite a few in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrggg Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thanks guys! Weeeee I'm so excited!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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