renman303's - 225 gallon Blog

[renman303]

This is a great link to Morgan Lidster of Inland Aquatics in Indiana.

Morgan Lidster of Inland Aquatics

They have been running this system successfully for more than 5 years now with SPS as well in over 40,000 gallons of water in their systems with water changes LESS THAN 10% ANUALLY!

I Love it!

Dave

Morgan Lidster

Facility Manager

Aquatic Technologies, Inc./

Inland Aquatics

Phone: (812) 232-9000

Fax: (928) 395-9434

www.inlandaquatics.com

[renman303]

This is the second outbreak in 5 months. My RO/DI is showing ZERO on TDS, phosphates are ZERO. I really have not seen any definitive information on the cause of Cyano. This is reeking havoc on my Birdsnest Coral turning some parts white! I have added a natural "Biological Clarifier" to the water and it appears to be helping but, what the hell causes this **** in the first place!!! Ahhhhhhh!

[mikedelgado]

I just got over a 2 month battle with that stuff. I believe the cause in my tank was nitrates cause it was the only measurable thing in my sys that was off. Its a long story but after I fixed what I believe was causing the ntrate prob the cyano went away

[renman303]

Brian from Kingfish was here for the same problem in January. All tests were zero. This is really perplexing?

Dave

[Brooks]

I currently have the same problem... It appeared after I purchased some dead rock and added it to my tank. So that is most likely the cause. You said it's cyano bacteria? I thought it was a diatom algae for the past week.

[renman303]

Little_reef,

You may be right about it being diatoms. Not sure what causes that either? Anyway, my birdsnest took it hard.

[Brooks]

I spoke with River City today, and they told me that I might just need to adjust my flow. Did that, and some of it appears to be going away. Though, the bulk of it remains.

[renman303]

All of my parameters are correct. No Nitrates, no Nitrites, no Posphates (albeit some of this can be from feeding). Salinity is 1.025, Calcium is 400, Mg = 1400, dKH=9.

I have added a biological filtration that is supposed to "eat" these critters and any other gunk. No go. Today I added Kent "Clean Equation" and killed all of the lighting. Yesterday I left the actinics and blues on but killed the MH. Today, no lights just to starve the stuff.

We'll see tomorrow...the pics say it all. My "Pink Birdsnest" is 75% white, now. I don't get it?????

Dave

[cmanning]

OUCH! - You got silicates. <grin> most diatoms require silicates to create their bodies.

You running any phosguard/RowaPhos or equiv? If so, has it depleted? (Stopped absorbing).

Many if not all Phosphate removers usually start removing silicates too as soon as they get the phosphates down to 0.

Since your phosphates are already 0, then if you start using a phosphate remover,

it's very likely you will see more immediate results. (Same exact products remove silicates "after" they've removed all the phosphates).

We hit this same problem about at the 1 year mark in our tank (was coming in from our source water)

Use a siphon to vacuum all the visible diatom (brown areas) of the sand up. Doing this alone, will get a lot of silicate out of your system.

Do this daily, and in the meantime start thinking of how/where the silicates are coming in.

Mosy likely candidates are: Your RO/DI unit's DI section maybe needs changing (source water), <-- most people's high levels of silicates come from this one thing - the source water.

We ached and groaned over where the stuff was coming from (there are virtually NO

good silicate test kits available out there) until we accidentally found out how they were getting in:

We ran out of our favorite salt - so we didn't do water changes for 3 weeks... and just kept vacuuming the sand - and one day - they were GONE..

In the meantime, - located some new Salt, and did ONE water change (20 % because we'd gone so long without one) and guess what BOOM -- the diatoms were "back with a vengance" the NEXT DAY. (Yep - I was pissed) - but the stark reality of it was, I only

had a RO unit (no DI) in those days of yore.. so I was missing this. (Fixed years ago now)

OR some food you are putting in the tank, or - (don't laugh) try backing off on food levels until you get this under control, and observe the results.

Best way we try to keep them down: constant running of PhosGuard in an inline filter

in the return pump line (between the sump and the tank).

Replace the Phosguard only if you test Phosphates are becoming detectably high again.

There are some diatoms that do not need silicates, - but the ones we get in this hobby

almost always do.

[renman303]

Cindy...I presume? ,

I think you may be on to something, about a two weeks ago, I tossed the old batch of Phosban. I did replace all of my RO/DI units and now have zero TDS where I was running about 40 TDS prior.

I sure hope my corals come back? That Birdsnest is beautiul...or was....

I am going to build an Algae Turf Scrubber to keeps phosphates, and nitrates down and increase O2 levels.

Algae Turf Scrubber FAQ

Algae Turf Scrubber Main Site

[cmanning]

You mean 40 on the TDS meter on the output side? Oucha oucha.. <grin>

Guess you'll be watching that thing a lot closer now.

Hey - our 1st RO unit didn't even have a TDS meter on it.. now the one we have

has 2 dual TDS meters. so we can tell how bad the water is coming in, again after the RO

bladders, and between the 2 DI canisters, and again on the final output.

I panic now if the bladders output before the DI reads higher than 1.. SO :

I bought a (clear) plastic whole-house water filter that's totally dedicated to the water going

to the RO/DI unit.. and I change it's cheap filter every month religiously.

(It's saved me several times when the "city" decides to "flush" the water lines.)

Yea -they flush them alright and it seems they flush them towards me when they do.

I seen that whole-house filter go from white to gray in a single day! Thank god those filters only cost a few bucks at Lowes, so I by them 5 at a time. - Better to filter out

the silt right there before it hits the RO filters as they are so much more costly.

[renman303]

All of the RO/DI units have been replaced about a month ago. I'm really perplexed as to where these silicates may be coming from??? I have done water changes every 3 days for the past 2 weeks and no change whatsoever! Well, that's not entirely true. My Pink Birdsnest Coral is now 95% white. I think it's dead...

Meantime, I built an "Algae Turf Scrubber" today. I'll post more on it in a new entry.

[renman303]

This entire setup was built using an existing pump, bucket and light. I simply bought some 1/2" fittings and two plastic dividers for aquariums. They also sell these for needlepoint at "Hobby Lobby" for $2.99 for the pair!

Total cost: $9.89

Time to assemble: 1 day...mostly waiting for silicon seals to dry!

[+mcallahan]

Hmmm..all the turf scrubber setups I've seen say the light needs to be on the side to be most effective. I'll be interested to see how it works out as I've been wanting to build an in sump one.

Keep us informed...if you can ditch your skimmer and carbon/phos reactors, that will pay for quite a lot of power bills.

Also, how loud is the sounds of the water falling?

[renman303]

Well, technically, the light is on the side. Just the inside more than the outside. Most Turf Scrubbers allocate one sheet with lights on both sides of the sheet. I'm running two sheets and just placed between them. The residual light bouncing off the inside of the bucket is pretty intense. The more light the better though. And this is a 2700K Plant Growing light. I just happened to have this one lying around so I thought I'd give it a week. It takes 3-4 days to get algae to really start growing and it's mostly "Hair" by then. It takes a few weeks to get the reddish "Turf"stuff going. If it's not enough light, I can always add one for $5.

As for the sound of the water falling. My entire sump setup is in the garage plumbed through my dining room wall so, I don't hear it. I hear my wave maker all the time, but I love the sound of it...soothing.

If the gravity fed return was put right at the bottom of the plastic sheet you would not hear any water falling as it sheets down the plastic sheet, if you will. Put some L.R. in there as well to dissipate the dripping sound.

Watch this space...

[cmanning]

"water changes every 3 days for the past 2 weeks and no change whatsoever"

This is "exactly" what we were doing when our silicates got <really, really bad>

the "more water" we changed - the WORSE it got...

OK OK - it it's not the water... it's coming in through something else.. what are you adding

to the water?

I hate to say it - but it *might* be in the salt! (or other additives) or .. uh, how long ago have you blasted clean your mixing vat? (The one you mix salt into the RO in) ?

Now - I am very curious about your situation.

[cmanning]

OH - and Dave & Robin or I can always help you re-stock - we both got lots of pink

birdsnest. (After we figure out where your Si is coming from).

[cmanning]

OH - and have you been siphoning out the diatom blooms form the sand when they are visible (during daylight hrs) they usually "peak" about 4:30 pm --> best time to siphon them out of the system. (er - it was for us).

Because: even if you are nto still inadvertantly adding Silicates, every nght the diatoms die, (sand will be so clean/white in the morning's first light) - but they release all the Si

into the H2O when they die each night, only to use it to rebuild their casings again the

next day. (photosynthetic creatures they are...)

You really must siphon them out of the system when they are alive and visible (their bodies are made up of silicate), so you can effectively reduce the Si concentrations

without going through a ton of phosguard/rowaphos.

I know you will lose some sand - but hey - a little aragonite replacement is far cheaper

than the other option.

[cmanning]

How much evap/day did it add? Notice any difference in top off amounts yet?

Just curious. - This could have a really good evaporative cooling effect if there's

any air flow around it, will provide extra good air/water contact space for gas exchange with the water too. (Should help keep your O2 levels nice at night).

Our "turfscrubber" is a "happenstance" one that happened to come along with the Neo-Nano tank we have plumbed into the main systems sump.

(It's "waterfall" return section- heh) . Algae grows on it very well with the halide hitting it, and so I decided to just let it go wild, and keep harvesting it periodically as a method of extracting nitrates.

But - I noticed it does run up my total evap/day.

System evaps about 5 gal/day now all said and done. -More in the dry winter months.

[cmanning]

I see you got 2 threads going on this.

Ok - diatoms look like "brown dust" - usually restricted to the lower areas of the tank

on the sand, and on the lower rockwork faces. - but they can ball-up and look like

a "light tan" form of the other thing (cyanobacteria).

Cyano - is usually RED -(bloody) and Jelly-like in consistency (has no real "form") and it

doesn't adhere to surfaces quite as well as diatoms.

But the best treatment is the same: gentle siphoning out every day while they are at peak

consistency using a long aquarium air line (so you don't lose too much water in the process).

Once gone - they will return from time to time. (Usually takes about 3-5 days of siphoning them out to see real results). Be careful not to blow them all over the tank when you are siphoning. - May want to turn off pumps while siphoning them out,

if you got a real bad outbreak of it.

I usually vacuum/siphon any little spots I see for about 10 minutes

right before water change time, and that's only when it hits bad.

We haven't had diatoms in over a year now, but we've had Cyano come and go.

(this is just from over-feeding/over-stocking).

I usually do it on a Sat/Sun as that's the only days we can do water changes at 5 pm.

[renman303]

Hey Cindy,

You are correct that the largest "blooms" are in the afternoon. I have been diligently cleaning the glass and trying to syphon the sand. I had just finished using "Instant Ocean" Salt and am now getting ready to try "Coralife". Although, most of these companies may vary from Mg to Ca levels. I doubt that these major manufactures are using inferior products...at least I like to believe that?

In terms of chemicals, I have been using B-Ionic for Alkalinity and Calcium supplimentation and Mg. That is literally it. It's just weird how this has popped up all of a sudden?

Perhaps one of my RO/DI membranes is faulty?

[cmanning]

Hey Cindy,

You are correct that the largest "blooms" are in the afternoon. I have been diligently cleaning the glass and trying to syphon the sand. I had just finished using "Instant Ocean" Salt and am now getting ready to try "Coralife". Although, most of these companies may vary from Mg to Ca levels. I doubt that these major manufactures are using inferior products...at least I like to believe that?

In terms of chemicals, I have been using B-Ionic for Alkalinity and Calcium supplimentation and Mg. That is literally it. It's just weird how this has popped up all of a sudden?

Perhaps one of my RO/DI membranes is faulty?

Do you have a dual TDS inline on the input and output sides of the Unit? (RO/DI)

This lets you tell if the membrane / filters are doing the job - the Dual TDS costs about 30 I think.

And you should see high (> 235 in our case) going in the input side, and absolutely 0 coming output side.

this tells you the unit is doing it's job.

Now: - how long did the old filters run with TDS @ 40 into your tank?

It may take as long or longer to filter it out as it did to get it in there and up to the levels where

the diatoms bloomed. (Has to reach a certain concentration before the bloom can really happen).

So - you may have been unknowingly building up to this bloom for a long time.

It may take a (lot) longer time to get them out then it did to get them in, just be patient, and

vacuum as you see them - it (the daily peak bloom)

should be visibly "dropping off" (snap pics each weekend for comparison at 4 or 5 pm so you can tell) after about a week (not as intense a bloom).

[renman303]

Cindy,

That is also a correct assumption. The TDS was 40 for God kows how long? The RO/DI was installed 18 months ago. So, I'm doing monthly checks since putting the new cartridges in. I predict, no more than 1 year at the max before they will all need changed out again. Everything is still reading zero since the change. I'm thinking of changing out about 60 gallons of water tomorrow (20% change including the sump). Other articles that I've read state do nothing then the blooms will eventually run out of food.

Hmmmmm???

[renman303]

OK, this is crazy, but good news. A week ago nearly all of the diatoms had vanished. To put them out for good I did a 20% water change (60 gal) and switched to Coralife Salt. Not sure if that is the salt I want but it was available and I'd never used it before. Anyway, the tank has been crystal clear for the past week! Everything is coming alive! And, I mean everything! Even my Pink Birdsnest has about 10 branches that are half full of life again! I almost pulled it out of the tank to use as a decoration in our bathroom! My carpet anemone is about 8" across now (was about 6"), corals are growing and popping all over.

I bought a small Naso (2.5") and think I need a cucumber to go through the sand now that that tank has been up for 10 months. Not sure what kind of Cucumber though?

[renman303]

My Algae Scrubber is working great! Algae is about 3/16" long now on both sides of both plastic sheets. It will take a few months to get the algae to the proper length to be most beneficial. Just a bit premature to make any real assessment. I'll keep you posted.

Water evaporates at about the rate of 1 gallon per day. Most of my system is sealed like the sump that actually has a glass 2-piece lid that completely seals the sump from the outside.