LEDs

[+mcallahan]

I seem to remember some people in town running LEDs over their tanks.

If you are running them, could you let me know? I'm interested in seeing them in action.

[chrisfowler99]

Give me a few months and I will be.

I've started ordering the parts for the setup (going to be DIYing the driver and controller boards). I haven't pulled the trigger on the actual LEDs yet, but will be soon.

[+mcallahan]

Give me a few months and I will be.

I've started ordering the parts for the setup (going to be DIYing the driver and controller boards). I haven't pulled the trigger on the actual LEDs yet, but will be soon.

you are brave.

[chrisfowler99]

Nah. Seems like fun.

[diabeetus]

well chalinda are running them over their salona that used to be Dena's DIY fixture. but you havent seen the one at Aquatek? the one just to the right of the entrance? that one is running on LEDs

[+mcallahan]

well chalinda are running them over their salona that used to be Dena's DIY fixture. but you havent seen the one at Aquatek? the one just to the right of the entrance? that one is running on LEDs

Yeah, for Solanas and small tanks, I'm sold. For big tanks, I'm not sold.

[chrisfowler99]

Yeah, for Solanas and small tanks, I'm sold. For big tanks, I'm not sold.

Not sold on color, brightness, growth, price or some combination?

[+mcallahan]

Yeah, for Solanas and small tanks, I'm sold. For big tanks, I'm not sold.

Not sold on color, brightness, growth, price or some combination?

Not sold on:

1 - They have enough punch to reach the bottom of the tank (or even half way)

2 - There is a solution that works yet. There is too many products with too many unknowns. Red/white/blue...what combo works best? Do we even need red, etc? No one knows.

3 - Kinks are worked out. LEDs that burn out and have to be replaced by soldering ISNT a viable solution to the problem

[chrisfowler99]

1) Yes, with the proper optics I believe this is fine.

2) The commercial products I do not believe are there yet. The price is exceedingly unreasonable and the options are very limited.

As for color, there is a general consensus on most of it, but you are correct about some debate about possibly needing some read. That's one of the reasons a lot of people are turning to putting in a "natural white" LED in with the string of "cool white" LEDs. The "cool white" LEDs are pretty much pure white. They pack a punch and with the proper optics they will reach the bottom. But the color, by itself is very bland. The "natural white" brings in a bit of yellow and red spectrum. Royal Blue is the pretty much agreed upon "actinic" color. There is some discussion about possibly adding some cyan.

3) I can see where this would be bothersome. Especially on a commercial product. On one that I'm building myself I'm not as concerned.

Because my setup will be DIY I know that if I need to adjust some color I'll be able to pull a cool white and add an additional natural white LED. If I want to try a cyan or a red I can pull one and insert a different one. It's soldering, but that doesn't bother me.

No way I'd run out and buy one of the commercial products right now, though. The one that is the closest to what I'm building would be the Aqua Illuminations SOL...and I'd need about 12 of those units at $629 a pop to duplicate what I'm building.

Yeah...I'm taking a bit of a gamble, but I don't think it's too far out there. We'll see.

[+mcallahan]

That's part of the issue thought - optics. Again, too many options - individual reflectors or not? etc...etc.

Microsoft made this stupid make with Vista. They have 7 different editions...consumers got confused and when they get confused...they don't buy.

[Will]

That's part of the issue thought - optics. Again, too many options - individual reflectors or not? etc...etc.

Microsoft made this stupid make with Vista. They have 7 different editions...consumers got confused and when they get confused...they don't buy.

that and it was a crappy product..... OSX all the way (Grrrrrr)

[chrisfowler99]

General consensus is that reflectors don't make much sense because the light is directional.

Optics are. Definitely easier on smaller tanks. Don't need them. The deeper the tank the more narrow optics you need, but not on everything or you'll spotlight. I think that's going to be the major issue that commercial systems run into...you can't do a "one product suits all" solution.

But think about most of the systems we are running today. Which bulbs do you need for the best color with T5s? Which MH reflector is best? Which MH brand bulb should I run? Which spectrum? 400W? 250W? 150W? Dimmable ballast? Should I supplement with T5s? Or maybe VHO?

There's no "one package fits all" outside of LEDs. But there is a lot more experience from which to draw.

I'm just going to be adding to the experience for LEDs.

[Crab Rangoon]

I've done lots of reading, pic browsing, and deliberating - both before AND after buying my LEDs. My tank's been running on LED's since the start, and I only have ONE coral that came from LEDs in it's previous home. My tank is 27" tall, and my LED's are anywhere from 8-15" from the top of my water (I change it / play with it from time to time). I've got 6 of the PAR38 lamps in 12k over my cube, as well as 3 Stunner Strips as supplemental light. The tank, overall, is too bright for my fish to be overly happy - but in their defense, many of them are deep water specimens. My Angels, Cardinals, and Basslets are all MUCH more active and comfortable when only supplemental lights are turned on. It's also problematic that LED makes it harder to take good snaps and vids of the tank and this is compared to my experience in shooting fish and corals under other forms of lighting, but most obvious when taking full tank shots.

Recently I decided to start shopping for some more supplemental light, to put some more blue, UV, and red in - as well as add reflectors to all the Stunner Strips so the light focuses into the tank rather than all over the walls too With the additional supplemental light, I also plan to remove one or two of the PAR38's, hoping to make the fish more comfortable. I need to quit being lazy & finally take some decent video of the tank to post up.

[offroadodge]

im waitn for HYDRO to chime in, I have a Par38 over my wifes bio cube and it look cool, dontknow about the growth though. If the bulb hadnt have come with the biocube i would have put a 150w MH over it.

[bige]

I have leds from nano tuners. I think my lights are too bright. It is on a 29 biocube. i have to agree, I have not seen a big tank with good leds. You are welcome to see my setup.

[+Hydro]

Ok I'm chimming in

I'm sure some of you might remember my thread about efficiency of LED's. It might seems as though I do not like them but that isn't true....I'm getting ready to install 8,000 of them over my tank at the low cost of $22,000! Just jokn....but serioulsy LED make great supplemental lighting and I'm still no arguing that. Sure, enough LEDs can grow coral no doubt about it but what will you spend on electricity to do it??? 90% of my argument was about energy efficiency and I still stand by it. MH lighting is more efficient at making light than LEDs...crazy but true. Again my example is $4,000 Aquallumination 72" fixture that has been verified to keep coral alive and healthy as long as the coral is above 30". This fixture uses 600 watts of power....(3) 250 watt lumatek DIGITAL ballasts use 600 watts!!!!!!! I'm sorry but you can't convince me that the aquaillumination fixture is brighter or could grow coral better than (3) 250's. Lets just say that the penetration is the same (which it isn't by their own warnings) and that the light could grow coral the same....WHERE ARE THE SAVINGS!!!! The lights use the same amount of power but the LED's cost $3,500 more!!!! Oh and 600 watts makes 2049 BTU of heat whether it is from your LED's, MH or your TV. When people say "LEDs don't make heat" its b/c their fixture isn't using that much power. I could put a 20 watt bulb over an aquarium and say that it doesn't make heat too but that doesn't mean that it is enough light for corals to thrive. There isn't a point of refrence for people with LED's except if you go by what the popular LED manufacturers recommend. AQUALLUMINATION RECOMMENDS TO USE THE SAME AMOUNT OF POWER FOR LEDS AS YOU WOULD FOR MH TO KEEP CORALS ALIVE AND HEALTHY (ABOVE 30") So a person can tell me that their DIY fixture doesn't make any heat and their corals are doing fine but that isn't a good point of refrence. I'm basing my opinion off of black and white text from the leading LED aquarium lighting manufacturer, these are the professionals.

BTU watts calculator

http://www.borino.co..._calculator.htm

I'm not trying to be insulting to people that are considering using or are using LED's but I simply don't understand why people waste money on these. Why spend all this extra money on a fixture that will never pay off in energy savings? It will never pay off with replacement bulbs either which is another myth. Also when one, two, or 10 of the individual LEDs go out after a couple of years who changes those out??? My wife can change a MH bulb no problem, but i personally couldn't change an LED. If a low wattage bulb is what you are looking for go with a lower wattage MH, they are way cheaper and will use the same amount of power! The breakdown assuming that you would have to use a chiller for the MH which is debatable, (I'm being nice to LED's and hard on the MH to prove a point)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aquallumination 72" fixture $4,000

No chiller

No replacement bulbs for 5 years although some will need to be replaced periodically and the only reason that you would run this fixture for 5 years is b/c it costs so much

600 watts of power

vs

(3) 250 watt MH bulbs with energy efficient digital ballasts $500

(1) 1/4 hp chiller that uses 225 watts when it is on $400. The chiller should produce around 2500 BTU of cooling against a small percentage of the 2049 BTU the lamps produce. Lets say that half of the heat is being introduced in to the tank which is a big percentage. So that puts you at an extra 100 watts and power is about .10 per killowatt. If running the lights for 8 hrs a day that adds up to $20 a year....so $100 total for 5 years.

(4) sets of replacement bulbs @ $60 each for a total of $720

700 watts of power

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's $4000 vs $1,720 to operate the lighting system for 5 years. Lets just say aquallumination is way over doing it and you really only need half of the wattage that they recommend, it's still cheaper to run MH and a chiller by several hundered dollars. OK there are some DIY people out there that can build the fixtures much cheaper than $4,000, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they can build their own fixture for 1/3 of the cost of a professionally made fixture of equal wattage. If you can congratulations you have a fixture that will cost you exactly the same as MH to operate, as long as your operating it for at least 5 years. If you aren't going to run your LED's for at least 5 years you are REALLY losing money!

[chrisfowler99]

Like I said above, the commercial systems are nowhere near worth the price. And they aren't anywhere near customizable.

My setup, as designed at the moment, should run me about $1,500 total...I'll itemize when it's complete.

And it should be running somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600W. We'll see how it ends up with lighting, but I think it should be fine.

I'm not heading into this as a "money saver". I realize I'll probably come out behind in the end.

I'm heading into this one because it seems like a fun project. I'm dipping into an area most people wouldn't want to go into. But it interests me.

I definitely wouldn't recommend this project to most people...

[+Hydro]

Like I said above, the commercial systems are nowhere near worth the price. And they aren't anywhere near customizable.

My setup, as designed at the moment, should run me about $1,500 total...I'll itemize when it's complete.

And it should be running somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600W. We'll see how it ends up with lighting, but I think it should be fine.

I'm not heading into this as a "money saver". I realize I'll probably come out behind in the end.

I'm heading into this one because it seems like a fun project. I'm dipping into an area most people wouldn't want to go into. But it interests me.

I definitely wouldn't recommend this project to most people...

That's cool Chris, I can totally understand doing something for fun to experminet (that's what we do!). That makes sense to me, you know exactly what you are getting in to. I just don't want people to be confused and buy LED's because they think it will save them money in the long run. Buy LEDs because you like they way they look, b/c you don't have a spot to place a small chiller, or just b/c you think they are cool!

As far as coral growth goes...that is something that I think is worth experimenting with, even of the fixtures use the same amount of power. It would be great if you would maybe take monthly pics of a coupld of frags in your tank to document the growth. It would be cool if someone else in the club with a comprable tank with MH's would grow out the same frags. This is an experiment that I would be really interested to see, I've personally have never tried LED's over a tank.

[chrisfowler99]

That would definitely be interesting.

[+lewk]

I have a box of 24 CREE bulbs I plan on using over an EcoCube...which is also um....still in the box. As soon as I'm comfortable enough with my soldering skillz, I plan to set up the tank and see how it goes.

[chrisfowler99]

which bulbs are you going to use?

[Crab Rangoon]

I have a box of 24 CREE bulbs I plan on using over an EcoCube.

XR-E or XP-G?

[chrisfowler99]

I have a box of 24 CREE bulbs I plan on using over an EcoCube.

XR-E or XP-G?

A more detailed version of my question.

[+lewk]

Sorry...with the forums down I didn't see this till now, it is 12 XRE Royal Blue and 12 XPG Cool White.

[+Hydro]

OK so I bought myself some Reef Brite actinic LEDs for mt tank. This doesn't make me a hypocrite because as I said before I think they are great for supplemental lighting and what attracted me was the small size, when I changed over my reflectors I didn't have room for the flourescent actinics anymore. I bought the reef brite LED strip which is about 1" tall and about 2" wide and I attaached them to my reflector using magnets. Here is my feedback...

Pros

With the MH lights on they are great. The actinic color isn't that strong which I expected going up against 2000 watts of MH, but it is noticable for sure. I think one LED strip can replace a 2 rows HO T5 actinic fixture no problem. The flourescents are 6" wide by 4" tall compared to the 1" x 2" of the LED, this was my resaon for buying them. I also think that the coverage is great compared to the flourescents. These LEDs are not mounted flat inside the strip, there are three rows and the top angles up and the bottom row angles down to increase the spread. For LEDs I think that the price was right, I paid $250 each for the 48" fixtures. My flourescents cost about the same.

Cons

The color looks weird with the MH off. Some of the corals colors are insane but the blue is so intense that it makes everything look fake. The flourescents added a nice soft touch to everything and doesn't seem to light the water, only what the lights strikes in the tank (hope that makes sense). The LED actually makes the water blue and the the rocks look blue, not purple. Also the LEDs make shimmering very intense on everything in the tank which I don't care for at all when the MH are off. I will not be enjoying my tank with the LEDs only, I don't like it at all. These things make heat too!!!! They are hotter than the flourescent fixture which makes sense b/c it uses more power. It's .38 amps per foot on the flourescents and .45 amps per foot on the LED. I used a IR thermometer and shot the LED and it is 95 degrees...I shot my air cooled MH fixture and it is 81 degrees. Also what isn't taken in to account about LEDs is that the transformer makes quite a bit of heat too, its 97 degrees!

All said and done I would recommend these lights to anyone in my situation and is limited on space. My goal was to make my corals pop and with the MH lights on they do exactly what I wanted them to. Since my MH lights are on the entire time I'm at the office it works for me.