Ichy situation

[ReefNewb]

Ok so i put a new bicolor angel in my 55 gal, about a week or so after one of my damsels ive have four months that is a about 4 years old has developed some serious ich, and that angel also has ich obvious on his blue. my damsel looks like its about to explode hes swollen so much, hes almost white now. my gf and i have researched remidies for ich and it seems everything points to copper. now my many questions are....

1. i have crabs, snails, a brittle star, and a cucumber in there. which means i cant put copper right?

2. i have the new 60 gal i can get setup and transfer fish in there and copper it up (doont really have the money to but i can if i must), but will they bring the ich with em to the new tank?

3. will the ich be in the LR?

4. Are there any ways of taming this beast without swapping tanks, and without killing all the inverts?

5. does the ich live in the substrate also?

I just put the massive, malnurished, blue tang 6-7" in there and i really want to see her get back to health without having to fight ich.

for the love of everything holy, i need help! Thanks....

[Teresa]

I'm not sure about a tank that size - or a full blown episode of ich - but when my fish in my 30 gallon started to show signs, I did a 25% water change for 3-4 days in a row. No more ich. You probably already know this but ich is always present in the water/substrate already - its just a matter of keeping it under control with excellent water quality and the fish having solid immune systems. Your malnurished blue tang might not even survive a copper treatment. I'm curious to see what others have to say, but I don't think water changes will hurt. I might have also added a slime coat protection - don't remember though.

[lexiemc]

Here is some of what we found from our trials with Ich.

Ich is much like the common fish flu. If a fish is weak or low immune it can develop Ich very quickly. Once they have it they will always carry it. Inverts don't normally contact it.

Yes it does live in the substrate for as long as 6 weeks even in a tank without any fish to host on.

If you choose to treat with copper you will need to quarantine the fish. Copper is toxic to inverts and Corals.

It should be in a clean tank without sand or live rock. That away the Ich will not have anything to hide in when they drop off the fish each night. PVC plumbing pipes can be used as shelters.

Frequent water changes and siphoning the bottom for detritus helps. QT tanks get very dirty fast and watch you chemistry to keep the water optimum. But it's all still a gamble. The stability and immune system of the fish is a big factor in them beating the Ich.

Not to be a downer here but we've had little success with the copper Ich treatments and our clown fish.

Some suggest freshwater RO dips for a short time. It changes the Io-somatic balance (i think that's how you spell it). The Ich can't survive it very long in it. But not all ich will drop off.

Slime coat may boost their natural defenses against the Ich, but again depends on the fish.

Check out other web resources like WetWebmedia for more information on Ich. They have large resources on a great deal of Aquatic life, habitats, and ailments.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com

Good luck.

[Timfish]

Here's a link to a really good article NonSequitur posted in the thread titled "Tang help needed" a few days ago.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

My vote is usually a UV sterilizor but it's probably to late for one to help your fish from your description of your fish although if one is properly sized for your tank it should keep it from being spread. Setting up a quarintine tank like Lexiemc suggests might be a more economical way to go. This may be insensitive for me to say but if at some point you decide to euthanize a fish I'd put it in a container in the freezer. Fish are ectotherms so they do not go into shock when their body temperature drops like mammals do.

[pbnj]

Once they have it they will always carry it.

Not true. I have a purple tang that became infested with Ich about a week after I put it in my tank. That was about 1 1/2 years ago and the tang is still with me. Not to mention I've never had any Ich since. If the Ich cannot attach itself to a host, it will die.

I firmly believe that without quarantine treatment, the only way to help a fish survive Ich is to boost its immune system to help it fight the disease naturally. That means good food sources and food-enrichment like Selcon, garlic, etc.

Some suggest freshwater RO dips for a short time. It changes the Io-somatic balance (i think that's how you spell it). The Ich can't survive it very long in it. But not all ich will drop off.

True, but because not all of the Ich will drop-off and more will re-attach once the fish is back in the tank, it's really pointless and too stressful on an already stressed-out fish. You're just accelerating the demise of your fish.

[pbnj]

....and don't use copper/malachite in any tank that has or will have corals/liverock. They're toxic to corals/inverts. They will also be absorbed by both liverock and silicone (staining it blue/green) and will eventually leach back into the system.

[mFrame]

Yep, don't use copper in any tank that you value. Buy a cheap used tank from anywhere and use it. You don't want your investment in a good tank permanently contaminated.

[Mike M.]

I have always been pleased with the work of those red and white striped cleaner shrimp. I have always tried to keep one in the tank to clean parasites from fish and with each new addition, the ich affected fish will spend time at the shrimp's cleaning station and to date, the cleaner shrimp has always taken care of the problem. Might be worth a trip to pick one up before you nuke your tank with meds or stress the fish further with freshwater dips or other treatments.

Food for thought...