Kalk Confusion

[pbnj]

I've seen people add a few teaspoons of kalk to their top-off water. I've also seen people use kalk reactors, which gently stirs the kalk/water so the kalk doesn't settle at the bottom and ensures the reactor is always full of kalk-saturated water.

Question: Why does the kalk in the reactor need to be stirred, yet nobody mixes the kalk in their top-off reservoir?

[JimD]

When using a kalk reactor, you want it to stir the solution for a period of time >then allow the solids to settle to the bottom<, you dont want to dose the slurry. Once the kalk has settled and the solution is clear then you want to set the reactor to dose top off. I think youll find that most people that use a reservoir do in fact mix, settle then dose. Keep in mind that kalk has an inherent Ph of 12.4 so you have to pay very close attention to your tank perameters, also, try to get your Ca and Alk levels where you want them using additives like Bionic and such, then use kalk to help maintain them...

[pbnj]

I'm not talking about the kalk reactors that use pumps to stir the kalk, which require the kalk to settle. I'm talking about the stirrers that rotate constantly.

I don't think people who use it in their top-off reservoirs stir/mix it any more after initially adding it to the top-off water. How would they know when to mix it so as to allow it to settle? If their top-off system uses a float-switch, they won't know when the top-off water would be added.

[JimD]

Stirrers run the same way as reactors, they stir, then turn off via a timer then settle, they do not run constantly. I suggest you do a lot more research before you think about using kalkwasser. Ph is how you tell when to mix, when to settle and when to recharge. Im not just making this stuff up as I go, Ive been using kalk in one form or another for over ten years so I kinda know what Im doing.

"I don't think people who use it in their top-off reservoirs stir/mix it any more after initially adding it to the top-off water" What makes you "think" that? Do you know this for fact?

[pbnj]

Maybe Mark Callahan can jump in here. He's the one I've seen add it to his top-off water.

[Rjohn]

I put 2 TBSP of Aragamite in a five gallon bottle of top off water then shake vigorously. I can refill the bottle 2 or 3 times without adding more Aragamite.

[caferacermike]

Wow what was wrong with JimD's answer? I mean hell I hate the ******* myself but he answered your question. I'm not to sure what the God Callahan can really add to what was already said.

I was going to answer the question because I have had my setup running for a long time, in fact I'm the one that went against the grain when he couldn't decide reactor or dosing. I said dosing and completely explained how it all works together. I've since decided to not directly answer the question any further than Jim did.

[pbnj]

What's going today, did everyone wake-up grumpy? This is the second forum post I've made today where somebody has taken a simple question and has made it into some kind of personal attack on their subject matter expertise.

There's nothing wrong with Jim's answer. In fact, it makes perfect sense. The only question I have for Mark is if he periodically mixes the kalk in his top-off water. He's not the only person I've seen/heard do this and I just want to know if they ever mix it after adding it initially.

Edited March 28, 2010 by pbnj

[Hamp]

When you add it through your top off, you are supposed to let it settle, then take your kalk through the middle of the reservoir. (unless I am mistaken) ******! lol

[Hamp]

I have no experience with stirrers though. Would they prolong the life of your kalk mixture when using as top off?

[JimD]

I have no experience with stirrers though. Would they prolong the life of your kalk mixture when using as top off?

No, the 'life' of the kalk is directly related to the ammount of evaporation which changes according to ambient humidity. Really guys, please ask questions and do some serious homework before using kalk, otherwise your heading for disater. Its not black and white and needs to be completely understood.

Aww Mikey, and here all this time I thought we were best buds, compadres, amigos, bros... Darn.. rotf..

[+mcallahan]

What's going today, did everyone wake-up grumpy? This is the second forum post I've made today where somebody has taken a simple question and has made it into some kind of personal attack on their subject matter expertise.

There's nothing wrong with Jim's answer. In fact, it makes perfect sense. The only question I have for Mark is if he periodically mixes the kalk in his top-off water. He's not the only person I've seen/heard do this and I just want to know if they ever mix it after adding it initially.

I put kalk straight into my ATO reservoir, everytime. No stirring needed. IMO, i don't know why people waste money on a stirrer when kalk in your ATO can work just fine.

If you are going with Kalk in your ATO via the mix and let it go method, a couple of things to note:

1. Jim is right, you have to be careful with the kalk mixture as the pH in there is very high. So, start with a low dose of kalk in your ATO. I'd start with 1 tsp/gallon and see how it affects your tank - that is, what your pH and Alk to make sure they don't go sky high. Adjust up or down as needed. Max dose on kalk is 2 tsp/Gallon.

2. The slurry in the bottom is lethal to top off pumps, so what I did was I have the tube that goes into the reservoir resting about 1-1.5" from the bottom. This makes sure I don't suck up any slurry. When the water level is close to the bottom of the reservoir the end inlet of my tubing, that's when I mix up more kalk/Top off water.

3. I mix up my ATO/kalk solution, put it in place and let it go. I don't worry about it settling out b/c I have a pre-filter that runs before my pump ($3) and I refill my reservoir in the early morning when evaporation is low.

4. Different evaporation rates will draw in more or less ATO, which means more kalk solution mixed into your tank. SO, you have to keep an eye on it and dial it up/down if needed. I know for myself I'll back off my kalk dose this summer when I'm going through 2gallons/day of ATO.

Kalk/ATO mixture won't go bad unless you are aerating it and I've had 5G of top off last nearly a week. Even at the end, all my levels (pH, alk, calcium) were steady so the kalk mixture is still just as potent as it was when I first mixed it up.

Here is a good thread for everything you might want to know about kalk.

[JimD]

Simply for a friendly and informative debate...

" Jim is right, you have to be careful with the kalk mixture as the pH in there is very high. So, start with a low dose of kalk in your ATO. I'd start with 1 tsp/gallon and see how it affects your tank - that is, what your pH and Alk to make sure they don't go sky high. Adjust up or down as needed. Max dose on kalk is 2 tsp/Gallon."

Since the effluent of Kalkwasser wheather mixed and settled or in flurry form is 12.4 either way, You're using much more kalk per dose using a flurry than you would if you mix and settle. You can theoreticly put a pound of kalk in a gallon of water and the Ph will still be 12.4 when saturated. The Ph wont increase, only decrease as you dilute the solution...

"

2. The slurry in the bottom is lethal to top off pumps, so what I did was I have the tube that goes into the reservoir resting about 1-1.5" from the bottom. This makes sure I don't suck up any slurry. When the water level is close to the bottom of the reservoir the end inlet of my tubing, that's when I mix up more kalk/Top off water.

Thats another benefit of using a reactor, no need to push the solution through a dosing pump, it gets forced out under pressure. What you're doing is working because you know the routine and needs of the tank. Basicly mixing the remaining kalk with fresh ro water, eventually settling. Id be curious what the Ph is as the resevoir empties. The pre-filter just throws good kalk down the drain. A well calibrated 24/7 Ph monitor is the only safe way to dose kalk via ATO... IMO!!!! Also lets you know when to recharge.

#4, Another reason for a reactor, an air tight mixing chamber,..

It really is what works best for you.

[+mcallahan]

I'm up for some lively debate...

Simply for a friendly and informative debate...

" Jim is right, you have to be careful with the kalk mixture as the pH in there is very high. So, start with a low dose of kalk in your ATO. I'd start with 1 tsp/gallon and see how it affects your tank - that is, what your pH and Alk to make sure they don't go sky high. Adjust up or down as needed. Max dose on kalk is 2 tsp/Gallon."

Since the effluent of Kalkwasser wheather mixed and settled or in flurry form is 12.4 either way, You're using much more kalk per dose using a flurry than you would if you mix and settle. You can theoreticly put a pound of kalk in a gallon of water and the Ph will still be 12.4 when saturated. The Ph wont increase, only decrease as you dilute the solution...

err...I am doing the mix and settle route...

"

2. The slurry in the bottom is lethal to top off pumps, so what I did was I have the tube that goes into the reservoir resting about 1-1.5" from the bottom. This makes sure I don't suck up any slurry. When the water level is close to the bottom of the reservoir the end inlet of my tubing, that's when I mix up more kalk/Top off water.

Thats another benefit of using a reactor, no need to push the solution through a dosing pump, it gets forced out under pressure. What you're doing is working because you know the routine and needs of the tank. Basicly mixing the remaining kalk with fresh ro water, eventually settling. Id be curious what the Ph is as the resevoir empties. The pre-filter just throws good kalk down the drain. A well calibrated 24/7 Ph monitor is the only safe way to dose kalk via ATO... IMO!!!! Also lets you know when to recharge.

err..the pre-filter doesn't catch that much and kalk is $10/gallon. A gallon will last me at least 6 months, so that's pennies a top off. If you are going to stress about pennies in this hobby, you are hosed!

i'd be interested in what the pH is as it empties, but I don't have a separate pH probe to hook up to my ACIII. Yes, i could use a regular test kit test, but I hate those things now that I have a pH probe and an ACIII.

#4, Another reason for a reactor, an air tight mixing chamber,..

It really is what works best for you.

Unless you force air through the kalk mixture, it won't go bad for a LONG time. Paying for airtight-ness is throwing dollar bills down the drain...

Nothing like friendly debates!

[Zarathustra2]

Just because i'm curious and have never ran kalk before... Why would mixing a lime solution with air make it go bad over a couple of weeks? I could see it changing the PH in the long run but in the time that its in your ATO?

[+mcallahan]

Just because i'm curious and have never ran kalk before... Why would mixing a lime solution with water make it go bad over a couple of weeks? I could see it changing the PH in the long run but in the time that its in your ATO?

It won't, at least significantly. If you push air through the solution, then it will lose its punch rapidly.

Read this article and start about 70% way down @ this heading:

Does Limewater Degrade Over Time? The Degradation Reaction

[+mcallahan]

Just say this: Kalk reactor for less than $100

Might have to try it out.

[Zarathustra2]

Great article Mark. Thanks for the link.

Is there any reason to put the inlet for your pump near the bottom as oppossed to at the top of your water? I was thinking about a float that would keep it at the top if I did this.

I'm very interested as I have noticed my bill for 2 part supplement go way up now that I have a larger tank.

[+mcallahan]

Great article Mark. Thanks for the link.

Is there any reason to put the inlet for your pump near the bottom as oppossed to at the top of your water? I was thinking about a float that would keep it at the top if I did this.

I'm very interested as I have noticed my bill for 2 part supplement go way up now that I have a larger tank.

I'm not 100% clear on what you are asking, but if you put it at the top of your ATO reservoir, then you'd have to constantly refill the reservoir as the water would be falling below your inlet.

FYI, now that I dose Kalk, I do NO alk, and only 15 mL's of Ca from my BRS 2 part system. Mg is a larger dose. I've found Kalk has made my 2 part bills drop significantly.

[Zarathustra2]

I was wondering if there is something special about the water 2" up. I was thinking of putting in a block of styrofoam that would float my tubing for a aqualifter at the top but keep it from sucking the dregs at the bottom if I ran out.

[+mcallahan]

I was wondering if there is something special about the water 2" up. I was thinking of putting in a block of styrofoam that would float my tubing for a aqualifter at the top but keep it from sucking the dregs at the bottom if I ran out.

there isn't anything special about the water 2" up from the bottom other than its not full of sludge!

[Zarathustra2]

Allright. i think I'll set it up this weekend then. Should be an easy build out. Thanks for the advice.

[Timfish]

I put 2 TBSP of Aragamite in a five gallon bottle of top off water then shake vigorously. I can refill the bottle 2 or 3 times without adding more Aragamite.

I like aragamite also. I pour it in my R.O barrel and have added it straight to my tanks without a problem plus it's got some of the other carbonites corals use. I maintain a Kalkwasser stirrer for one of my customers and my biggest annoyance is the frequency the pumps wear out. When the pump is running the slurry stays in the lower 3/5 ths of the chamber with the upper 2/5 ths remaining clear so I don't worry about the auto top off (Tunze) running at the same time as the mixing pump. The Tunze is pretty sensitive also, it dumps between 2 and 4 quarts when it triggers in a 600 gal system so I doubt the pH would be affected much even if some of the slurry got in the system.