Koralia 3's

[Rjohn]

I swapped my Koralia 2's today for Koralia 3's. The flow is MUCH improved, I think. How can I tell if it is too much? I don't have any sand so that can't blow around. What is the diagnostic for too much flow?

[muddybluewater]

Watch your Lps and softies and see how they react. If they seem OK then l would leave everything alone, if not redirect the flow. As a reference for flow I have about 4500 in my 120g.

[Tim and Kendra]

I have the same question.....I have two powerheads and the sand always gets blown around in the bottom of the chamber. How do I know how to poisition the powerheads in the correct place?? Thanks

Tim

[JimD]

I doubt thats anywhere near too much flow, I have 7000gph in my 60 gallon acro tank.

Edited February 26, 2010 by JimD

[JeffT]

So then too much flow is relative to what you are keeping in your aquarium. I have heard that a ball park gph to start with would be 6-10x tank volume. And then you would adjust according to specific needs.

In my 65g I have a Rio 2500 return pump and a Koralia 3. I am happy with my flow for now. My xenia and frogspawn sway gently from where they are positioned and I have the few SPS corals placed in a higher flow area. I do have sand being kicked up in one corner that I occasionally have to level out.

[Bill B]

Rule of thumbs are just broad approximations but I have typically heard closer to 20-30X, which still is not all that much when you think about it. 6x sounds reaally low. If you had no return from sumps or skimmers even, that would mean 1 Koralia one would be sufficient for a 75 gallon. In Ric's case 2 K3's=1700. Guessing a 9.5 at 4 ft head is about 500 gph so 2200 gph on a 72 is about 30x, so 'rule of thumb' sez that should be okay.

Bill

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

How do y'all have your power heads set up?

I hate the ones I have currently (came with my tank). I do not have enough flow, but the flow produced by the ones I have now is so linear I have to be very careful how I point them or my softies end up getting blasted. I've been trying to angle them (have 3, with my return pump about 10x all together) to bounce off the glass to disperse the water. It mostly works... discounting the micro bubble issues a couple are having but that's another matter.

Ric, do the koralias disperse the water well? I'm debating between k3s or k4s. I like the way they look and their price tag.

Ideally I want minimal clutter in the tank, but I'll sacrifice aesthetics some if it keeps my corals from getting sucked into an inner tank whirlpool! Would it be better to get 3 k3s and angle them around the tank, or 2 k4s and direct them towards each other? Other better ideas?

When I get my tank replumbed and hook up the return pump I want to use instead of the one I have now I'll have about 500gph there plus what ever power heads I add. I don't have a drilled tank so the return pump will be a single angled outlet.

Would love input. I'm hoping to get all the powerheads next month so need to figure out what I want in the tank.

Liz

[Rjohn]

Liz, my K-3's have a concentrator on the end so I am not sure what you mean by "disperse". I have one at each end pointing at opposite sides. I am getting movement in softies that did not have any movement before. Some of my xenias seem to be getting pushed pretty hard but I think they will toughen up. At any rate, I am going to stick with this for a couple three days to see what happens.

I think Bill knows my tank almost as well as I do. That hints that I have been complaining WAY too much in the past.

Sarah, thanks again for all the coral I got the other day. They are starting to come around as they adapt to the lesser light of my T5's compared to your MH's.

[Zarathustra2]

A good rule of thumb is 10x volume minimum for softies/LPS. 30-40x is better for the hard corals. I saw a RC tank of the month that had a total of 100x flow into a 200 Gallon tank. Yes... that is 20,000GPH he had recirculating between a master recirculator a few powerheads and a wave-maker. This was for an all SPS tank of course. This sort of flow would rip your hammer corals apart.

In both cases you will want to have some method to make your water flow turbulent instead of laminar. The easiest/cheapest way is to either point the power head at a wall or rock or point two power heads at each other. You can move this all the way up to a high end wave device to provide a similar but better effect.

A good few tests...

1. Am I getting the right flow for my SPS - Take a look at them. Do you get good polyp extention ALL AROUND the piece. If you only get polyp extention on one side you have a laminar flow. The extended polyps should float in the current and dance, not all point to one side. It is almost impossible to get too much turbulent flow for SPS. Think about where they are placed in the reef. At the top where real 6 foot waves are constantly going past them.

2. LPS - They should GENTLY wave back and forth in the current. If you have a laminar flow on a SPS it will grow wierd looking. On a LSP you will tear the polyps and damage the coral. Think amber waves of grain here. If you have too much current you will tear polyps. I lost a great piece of wall hammer to this once. If you don't have it waving the coral wont be able to get it's waste away from itself fast enough and it will start to poison, sitting in it's own poo. Again, think of natural reef placement. Usually 5 feet or so down on the side or on lower ledges in the reef.

3. Softies - These really vary by species. For instance, most mushrooms need no current at all as they usually sit in the sand with a covering of silt on them in the wild for camoflage. Others (the smooth red and blue ones you see in the hobby) are higher up in the reef and like some good flow. Leathers on the other hand need a 10x or so random current to slough off the mucos they generate once a month or so to clean themselves. Carnation corals are usually in underhangs or caves with a high current passing by them. Some species even require to be hung upside down.

So just between the main 3 categorization of corals in the hobby there is a lot of difference. Luckily there is a lot of variation in our tanks if built right. Almost everyone sets up thier powerheads so there is a lot of current at the top and less as you go down. Then you can put your acro's up top with lots of light and current and LPS mid level for good light and medium current. So... for me, a guy who's primary organisms are sponges and LPS I have a 90 G with 2 K4s pointed at each other from across the tank. I also have two places where my return pump crosses that current to add some more turbulence off of a Mag 9 return pump. I will be adding one more k4 and have it moutned on the back wall pointed directly at the front wall to add some more turbulence. Between these zones I should have all the different flow zones I need for the carious corals I want to have.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Thank you Zarathustra! I'm planning on sticking with softies and LPS. I do have a couple SPS corals but it was by accident.

The lower flow for the softies makes sense. I've seen high flow pushed so much I'd really gotten into the mindset that I needed a lot more flow without stopping to really take into consideration what I specifically am keeping.

So, for a standard 125g 6' long tank do y'all think a pair of K4s at either end and the return from a mag 7 would provide good flow for my corals?

Ric, my powerheads shoot water in a hard concentrated stream. From what I've read some powerheads are better about putting out a good flow that has a wider coverage area. I have yet to see this in action so I'm wondering how good the Koralias are spreading out the water they push. I keep imagining it like the nozzel on a garden hose... you can either have it come out really hard in a straight jet or twist it so the water is distributed in a larger spray pattern. Ya know?

I have to watch my pulsing xenia as well. It's really sensitive to geting blasted. My palua nepthea and kenya trees are as well. When I clean my tank and cut all the power heads and return some of my corals extend their best.

And I don't think you're complaining too much! You've had a lot of issues and you've been working really hard to fix them and it sounds like you've made amazing progress. What's the point of a forum like this if not to help each other out and learn from each others experiences? I follow all your threads closely because we've had so many of the same issues.

[Zarathustra2]

I think 2x K4s and a Mag 7 should be mostly sufficient. The problem you will run into is getting turbulence on a 6' tank.

Now... Depending on rock formation...

I would put both K4s on opposite sides of the tank about halfway down pointing to the front middle glass to form an "x". Then throw a k2 on the back glass on each side pointed to the front glass about 2' from the sides. This should set up a really nice turbulent flow over your whole tank. You may need a spare powerhead to find any dead zones.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

For some reason trying to figure out powerheads has been one of the hard things I've run into thus far. Interestimg thought having the two smaller powerheads pointing front to back.

Would that help break up the continuous flow from the powerheads on the sides so things in the tank would 'sway' vs. being blown all one direction all the time?

Thanks for your input!

[Bill B]

I still find powerheads and flows very elusive. I am trying to keep a very mixed tank and having about the right flow for everything is shall we say problematic.

Bill

[Zarathustra2]

For some reason trying to figure out powerheads has been one of the hard things I've run into thus far. Interestimg thought having the two smaller powerheads pointing front to back.

Would that help break up the continuous flow from the powerheads on the sides so things in the tank would 'sway' vs. being blown all one direction all the time?

Thanks for your input!

Yes, thats the idea. Have cross currents hitting each other so its not just a single direction flow (laminar) but rather chaotic (turbulent.)

Alternately you could just go for a wave maker or use a SCWD on your return pump and boost your return pump up from a mag 7 to something a bit beefier (you probably should on a 125G.) The alternateing current seems to have a big effect on SPS but not so much on the deeper water corals.

The main issue people have with flow is that we try to put too many species in our tanks. If you want to run an SPS tank thats great, just don't expect to be able to have a thriving sponge population in the same tank. Each of these critters is in a different area on the reef. Why would you be able to keep them all in the same captured environment.

The one thing you can do is plan ahead and set up different zones in your tank. I'm a big fan of the steve tyree tri-zonal system and wish it would take on more widely. In my 90G i'm using rocks and montipora caps to create areas with lower light for non-photo critters but leave bright light sand areas for fungia and clams. At the same time those rocks break up flow and give me different rates and areas to work with.

[Rjohn]

Z, I bought a small fungia the other day, about the size of a quarter. I have it sitting on a flat rock. Should I move it the CC bed?

[Zarathustra2]

Yes. They move around so can fall and be hurt if they are on rock. I read a study that documented them having a home range of hundred of meters in the wild.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

I'd love to see your tank Z. I think that I can manage lower flow towards the bottom and higher towards the top to accomodate the corals I like. I tend to like the softies more than SPS and plan to focus in that direction.

Hey Ric, whatcha doing with your old K2s?

[Rjohn]

I'd love to see your tank Z. I think that I can manage lower flow towards the bottom and higher towards the top to accomodate the corals I like. I tend to like the softies more than SPS and plan to focus in that direction.

Hey Ric, whatcha doing with your old K2s?

I haven't decided that I don't need them yet. Ask me again in the next week or two. I am still playing with my flow.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Will do.

[Brooks]

I haven't decided that I don't need them yet. Ask me again in the next week or two. I am still playing with my flow.

Hey Ric. Not sure if this was already said, as I just skimmed through the thread. Just make sure your flow is random and not direct on any coral. None of them will like that.

[Rjohn]

I am not sure how you define "random" in this sense. My latest configuration is on the back wall, pointed at an angle towards the front wall, one kinda up and one kinda down. Everything is waving more gently now. I think I was overpowering some of them for a while. I'll see how this goes. My 2's would never have worked in this placement.

[TheKipf]

Hey Keeper, I'm actually looking to pick up a couple K2's -- are you by any chance going to sell the ones you just swapped out?

[Zarathustra2]

I am not sure how you define "random" in this sense. My latest configuration is on the back wall, pointed at an angle towards the front wall, one kinda up and one kinda down. Everything is waving more gently now. I think I was overpowering some of them for a while. I'll see how this goes. My 2's would never have worked in this placement.

http://wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm has a better explanation than i could ever give for the different types of flow you can get in a tank. The attached links are also a fantastic resource.