KeeperOfTheZoo

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+717+238&pcatid=238 Min tank size for 1 scorpion is 30g and I think these online sites really advertise the bare minimum tank size because its in their best interest for selling fish. 1 scorpion in a 40g would be good. 3? Do the math. Get a bigger tank or smaller fish. There are times watching my fish swim and maintain their territories and habits that I think the 5 I have in my 125 are as many as I should have, and I too have a couple that are not free swimmers or thaty spend a good part of their time hidden in the rocks.

I like the idea of a spray bar, I've considered using one but haven't gotten the logistics worked out. I think plumbing as or off the return is a great idea and was how I'd toyed with doing it.

Thanks Jeremy, glad you found a useful idea. I love that about this forum. So many ideas!

Well, its hard to tell from pictures but they're kinda looking like the non reef safe variety. Bummer because they are gorgeous. Here is an ID link, what do you think Jen? I love Moorish idols and these are the next best thing. Don't want to wipe out my corals though.

Do you have any corals in your tank? The Butterfly fish are gorgeous, but how reef safe are they? Searching online real quick it says they'll eat inverts and corals. What's your experience with the pair?

I'm not sure if this counts as DIY, but I wasn't sure where to stick it! Thought I'd explain how my HOB overflow is set up. This set up truly is as flood proof as any system moving water from one container to another can be. It is not complicated, it does not require lots of after market modding or expensive after market equipment. I have a HOB overflow and a return pump. Eventually here I'll add an Aqualifter pump when I install the actual HOB box I have. That's a $12 pump to improve performance... much like all the various gurgle buster, durso stands, blah, blah, blah added to drilled tanks. There's always a way to tweek things! The current tank shots are dusty, sorry... busy with kids. Lately here I feel less like a Mom and more like a chauffer, but that's another topic (oh the joys of teenagers). Let's start with a picture of my under the tank set up. This whole thing is very DIY and I am very much learning as I go. This is my original set up. A 10g fuge with a DIY overflow into a 20g sump. Great in theory, did not hold up (DIY overflow got dirty and stopped working, this is the main failure of this type of overflow). This is one instance where a DIY overflow (or any overflow) is NOT a good idea, I could not flood proof the 10g tank. I now have a 20g long drilled fuge overflowing into the 20g tall sump. No loss of siphon = no chance of a flood. And this is the #1 factor when installing a HOB overflow. Plan for loss of siphon. If you do that, you won't have floods. Look at how clean everything was when first installed! This is much harder to explain than to put into practice so if I loose ya, well, I've probably derailed my own train of thought so don't feel bad asking questions! Top side in your display tank you want to set the intake of the overflow high enough that when the siphon is lost minimal water will drain into the sump area, however don't run the water level at the rim of the tank, give yourself a little play. You will always have some back flow when your return pump cuts off and the water in the tank drains down because the water level will be slightly higher in the tank than the overflow lip. Not a big deal, just plan for it. There are calculators on the net that help determine the volume of water drained down 'x' inches over 'y' area. Blah, math. You will also need to drill a hole ABOVE the water level on what ever apparatus you're using to return water to the tank. Drill it just above water level. This breaks the siphon on the return just as soon as you loose water flow, also helps prevent back flow into the sump. Here is a picture of my PVC DIY siphon fed overflow. This is about to be replaced as soon as I get motivated to redo my plumbing with a overflow box, simply because I want more flow and a bigger overflow area. This is with the water flowing. Now, down below in your sump you need to create at least two chambers, preferably with baffles to a.) set the water level in the sump lower than the full capacity b.) create a small return pump chamber c.) keep the water level for your skimmer absolutely consistent no matter what the state of your ATO (or lack there of) and d.) work as a bubble trap. You also need to make sure that your sump can contain all the back flow from your display tank when the return pump is cut off. Just like for drilled tanks. IE- Don't skimp, get a big enough sump for your tank. Again, this goes back to that math formula. Find out the volume that will drain from your DT and make sure the sump is big enough to handle the additional volume. Here is a pic of the water level in the sump when the siphon is running. Note the fancy tape line? That's the 'do not fill beyond this point' line. It's actually a bit conservative, I can fill it higher and still have plenty of room in the sump for the DT to drain (better safe than sorry though and it's easy for husbands to understand). The smaller return chamber on the left probably holds about 2g of water, maybe a bit more. Just fine as a top off area and return chamber. Note the bits of media floating around? That's what happens when you let a 3 year old help with tank mainetance and he accidentally drops a media tray in the sump exploding its contents. *sigh* Kids are wonderful. So, what happens when the overflow looses siphon? And yea, they will sometimes. Supposedly if you use an Aqualifter it totally eliminates loss of siphon. I'll find out eventually here. Basically when the siphon is lost the overflow stops draining, so the return pump empties the return chamber. The water level in the tank rises over the level of the overflow intake like this, it's hard to see but when the pump runs out of water in my sump the level of water in the display goes up maybe 1/4" over the top of the overflow. No where close to flooding out of the tank: Down below in the sump the return chamber is as empty as the pump can make it (not bone dry though so the pump is ok), all the water has been pumped up into the tank but because of the baffles only a gallon or two can be pumped up before there simply is no more water to pump, this prevents a flood in the DT: That's really all there is to it. Control the amount of water that can be drained, control the amount of water that can be pumped into the tank and you have a completely controlled and flood proof HOB overflow.

That's gorgeous Mark! I love the magnet idea, how clever. Would you mind elaborating on just how you mounted it and what kind of magnet? If it hasn't sold by next week (wishful thinking) I'll come into town and get it. Just too much going on till then.

I have no issues with hand collecting for our tanks. Its silly to think its somehow more ethical for the pros to collect en mass than for individuals to carefully select a few creatures to take home. That said, if you're going to collect you should do so responsibly. Sand dollars do not fare well in captivity. They need very, very large tanks (6 square feet +) with very deep (6"+) well established sand beds. Otherwise they will starve do death. Many things are best left in the ocean. Teoahnna, these wouldn't make it in your tank or mine either for that matter.

LOL! I bought him a single baby octopus at central market one time and had to explain that it was for an eel. I'm so glad his eye cleared up. Both were really cloudy when I got him. The one had cleared and the other improved before I gave him to you. I think I told you, but the lady I got him from had only ever fed him live FW feeder fish. Yuck. He really is a neat animal, but I sure don't miss his aquascaping the tank to make tunnels. I'm so glad the goby is doing well. I wonder what got him the first time?

Cruddy pics taken with my phone, gotta replace my real camera. Here's the green, you can see the growth to the right. It's grown out more behind it where you can't see in the pic as well. It's hard to see in the pictures, but this one has grown a lot in a month. Nice green derbesia as well. It's almost gone now, I'm not sure what my tang is gonna do when there's no more macro in the tank. And this is the brown one, but after looking at pics of orange and red I'm not sure it's actually brown. Good growth ring all around it.

Wow Jeff, that's awesome growth! ! Nice tank too. Dave, I don't want to see your pretty purple monti unless you're willing to frag some for me. Then again, I'm a glutton for punishment.... torture me with your gorgeous tank pics. Ric, I have 4x 96w PC lighting. The green is holding its color just fine, little polyps are out and its growing. I was looking at the brownish frag and its changed, looks like its trying to get kinda orange maybe? Although looking at Jeff's pics it looks a lot like his red cap.

Dave, thanks for the heads up about calcium. I have a couple SPS frags that are growing much faster than I would have anticipated as well as a few LPS frags that are showing so much growth I'm amazed. I guess I had it set in my head that all LPS and SPS grow really, really slow. I've since learned that some are indeed fast growers. I keep checking my calcium and it doesn't stay as high as it used to but it's still ok (400-420, down from 450). If it dips below 400 I'm going to start dosing calcium. For right now I'm just going to leave well enough alone. Lamont, I'm hoping mine cup vs. plate. Seems like they're doing it in Dave's tank no matter the flow so here's hoping we get some nice growth eventually too. Did you see the pictures of the different montis all grown together in the link? It's AMAZING!!!

I'm glad the goby is hanging in there. Seems like if he's made it this far he'll probably be ok with time to recoup. Eating is always a good sign. Since the eel was full I can't imagine he'd go after the goby under normal circumstances. When I had him he never showed much interest in any of the fish, even when he was hungry. It always seemed like he was following the fish to food vs. seeing the fish as food. Gosh, 4 shrimp for dinner. I'm surprised the eel wasn't too stuffed to move. I'm so glad he went to you Jeremy, talk about a spoiled fish.

I have two little monti cap frags (green &brown). I've read that flow influences their shape as they grow but aside from that no other info was provided. I really like the look of a large colony with multiple 'shelves'. Will the coral always do that as it grows or do I need to adjust the flow over it a certain way? Right now the bright green frag is showing good growth, enough that it has encrusted on a rock and some of the new growth is starting to cup and part is growing out across the rock. (I've had it about a month and a half). I'm really curious to see how it grows out. I'm gonna have to find a purple monti cap frag. Wow, the purple is pretty! I found this thread on another forum with some really cool pics of monti experiments a few pages in. I'm not sure I havethat kind of patience but the results are awesome!! http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=167411

I can't believe he bit him! Do you think he did the initial injury or just took a bite after something else hurt the goby and he smelled an injured animal? I know eels are predators by nature, but that guys always been so mellow. Was he hungry? Feeding frenzy attack? Hope your goby recovers. My rule with antibiotics is to only use when absolutely needed. Remember they'll kill all bacteria including those that are beneficial and necessary for life. That's hard on an already stressed creature. That said eels are known for having bacteria ladden mouths and infection is a real problem for people after an eel bite. Why don't you email the folks over at wet web media and see if they have any suggestions for treating fish after an eel bite.

+1 for a great way to check for CO2 Jeremy. Like the new sig by the way. I have one of those vacancy signs too.

Oh wow, hawks eat hermits? My hermits have been doing a pretty good job of chewing on each other here lately. Your hawks are really neat, of all your fish they're the ones that stood out in my memory. I hope the angel is the culprit it'd be a shame to have to get rid of them. But if you decide to I want to be on the top of the list! As a plug, Mike has a gorgeous tank and very healthy fish.

How are you going to set the tanks up in relation to each other? This is one time I would not recommend a hang on overflow for sure. Its hard to the point of maybe being impossible to flood proof it simply because you can't control for failure when there are so many random variables. On one tank with one HOB you can eliminate the risk of flooding, I couldn't work it out to prevent floods when using one on a second tank (fuge to sump in my case, I gave up and I'm having a new bigger fuge drilled) Sounds like you are already wanting to avoid HOB but I thought I'd go ahead and reinforce the idea. Why don't you check out the plumbing at some of the LFSs to see how they are doing things. Maybe you could mod and apply similar ideas. Fishy Business has one of the nicest looking sales tanks set ups I've seen. I had to ask if the tanks were chained together because they didn't appear to be. On returns, drill the siphon break hole above the water line. Really limits back flow to the sump.

I haven't used a refractometer yet. Is the rust on the hinge a working part that will influence its accuracy? If not, I'm interested in getting it. What brand is it?

No one wants this little gal? Its looking lonely in my sump with only a big hermit for company. Not a bad fish at all, just doesn't play nice with passive clowns. She was fine with all my other fish. I hate to take a fish to the LFSs.

Darn, I was hoping to see hawkfish on the list.

I'd like both K3s please! I will be in Austin this weekend, would that work for picking them up? Edit- just looked at the desktop version of the site (surfing on my phone) so I could see your location. San Antonio is a bit far. Do you come N to Austin? If not I'll have to pass.

Thank you for taking the time to write all that out Tim. I think logically I know, but right now my frustration level is getting the best of my logic. Its very frustrating to have two fish come from one tank and to loose the one I really want. That said, after seeing how horribly aggressive the tomato clown is I've been wondering how stressed the little clown I lost was before I even got it. Like you said, the majority of my fish are fine and if I throw in my inverts my overall losses are minimal. Thank you again for your thoughtful posts, this last was just one of many. I truly enjoy reading you perspective on things.

That sounds like an amazing tank with an even more amazing amount of planning and patience behind it. As of right now my unplanned and unwanted tomato clown is living in the sump after it spent the whole day beating up my sweet little ocellaris and stealing the mushrooms she hosts in. Tomato girl is very pretty, but as the old saying goes....pretty is as pretty does and that fish has won herself a one way trip to a new home. I've heard tale of the nasty attitudes the tomatoes and maroons can cop. I'm sure there are exceptions, I just feel bad about having subjected my poor ocellaris to one of the fish that prove the rule!