KeeperOfTheZoo

I thought chromis were supposed to be pretty hardy. I've had an adult pair for a few months. They're pretty voracious eaters! Always the first to the chow. When you say 'long term' survival, at what point did you loose the fish and consider it early demise? I'm still adjusting to how long saltwater fish live vs most freshwater fish.

Not all non-photo corals are filter feeders. If you concentrated on those you can spot feed vs filter feed I dont think itd be any worse than anything else. I've contemplated a sun coral tank. I have a 20g I'm about to upgrade to a 55g, pondering nano ideas for the little tank.

How about a non-photosenthetic coral tank? There's a beatiful amount of diversity in that group of corals. I would think you could spot feed easily enough in a tank that small so water quality could be maintained. Not sure of the growth rate of the non-photo corals but isn't it pretty slow for many? I've considered doing just this in a nano, I love the corals and they are so unique, It would be really different to have a 'no light' tank when so often 'max light' is what we're all going for,

Wow. That is an evil clown. Makes my tomato look like a saint. Think I'm gonna stick to ocellaris clowns in the display. My little gal is just as sweet as can be.

I have a 6' tank, I'm not sure a 48" light would cut it unless you want the outer edges of the tank to house very low light/ non photosenthetic corals. Which is an option. The non-photo corals are really pretty, just higher maintenance. From what I've seen T5s and PCs don't seem to produce a large amount of radiant light (not like MH do). Not sure I'm using the correct term! The light simply doesn't radiate out far. I have an almost 400w 6' PC fixture over my tank. I have softies, LPS and a few of the easier SPS growing great. I'd like to upgrade to T5s eventually and it is hard to find an affordable lighting fixture for the big tanks. Options in the 6' range are limited too. You can find tons of smaller fixtures, not the big ones. I like the two separate fixture idea. I've even thought about a couple of the lower watt MH pendants. It might work out cheaper.

Thanks so much y'all! Really helps to hear so many positive endorsements. My kids and I saw Dave & Robins giant black cucumber at the meeting they hosted. I wouldn't call it ugly, a little creepy maybe. We enjoyed watching it. My boys thought it was totally cool and are excited about getting it. Hope the timing works out today Dave!

Do you still have the 20l sump? Sent a pm and didnt get a reply.

Ok, Dave you are so gonna roll your eyes at me but... I gotta ask the list at large. What's your experience with sea cucumbers nuking tanks? I've done some research and it seems like a lot of folks feel they're a time bomb. Not a matter of 'if' they will nuke your system but 'when' and how bad. I love their sand cleaning ability and my tank needs it (still on the long recovery from nutrient build up when I bought it), but I would be devastated if the cuke had a bad day and wiped out my tank. I don't think I have anything in my tank that would pick on it aside from hermit crabs. From what I've read physical stress plays the biggest role in them going into nuke mode. Advice? (ducking and running now before Dave hits me with a wet fish, I've been going round and round about his black cucumber for months now)

LOL!! TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!!!

Ric, When I moved my tank across town my fish were in storage containers for 24+ hours. I put aerators (pumps with an air stone, though I've read this can cause pH spikes so I'm not sure it's a good idea, I think a slow power head would be better) in the containers and everyone did just fine. No losses as all. All live rock was in containers and covered with water, ditto my CC and the few inverts and corals (tough stuff) that came with the tank. If you can get the real big containers it's like a mini tank. Fill it with water from your tank (which is what I did, didn't make new water), add in some live rock so the fish can hide. You'll be fine. Just make sure that you don't overfill the plastic containers and explode them, I've heard stories about it happening! Coolers make great water containers too. I brought inverts home from FL in a cooler, 48+ hours on the road and pretty much everything did fine and that was quite a massive change in environment.

I have something 'growing' on one side of my tank on the sand bad. I thought it was cyano coming back, but it doesn't really seem like cyano. It's hard and forms crunchy sheets. I think it might be coralline growing on my sand!? Man I'm starting to hate that stuff. I like it on the back tank wall, and it's almost totally covered my back wall in the last couple months. But I wish it wouldn't encrust everything else that doesn't move away fast enough. I can't say 'that doesn't move', because I have hermits with coralline encrusted shells. Rediculous. Does cyano ever grow without being stringy or fuzzy and not feeling kinda slimy?

OK count me in, thanks Mark. Do we have enough interest for a group buy? Is BRS one that gives an additional discount? After looking a bit there are a few things I need, a little over $50 worth.

I need to order one of their two part dosing kits. I'd need to wait until Fri though, I also don't have a PayPal account. If y'all could wait till then, Mark I could drop off $$, pick up the magnet and wistfully ogle your purple cap. I've got errands to run in town on Fri.

Thanks for the additional info via pm's on the sump. Hope you still have it Fri when I can make it into town. I hope your personal situation works out as well, sounds like a rough one.

Where are the 20g tanks drilled?

I like the idea of a spray bar, I've considered using one but haven't gotten the logistics worked out. I think plumbing as or off the return is a great idea and was how I'd toyed with doing it.

Thanks Jeremy, glad you found a useful idea. I love that about this forum. So many ideas!

Well, its hard to tell from pictures but they're kinda looking like the non reef safe variety. Bummer because they are gorgeous. Here is an ID link, what do you think Jen? I love Moorish idols and these are the next best thing. Don't want to wipe out my corals though.

Do you have any corals in your tank? The Butterfly fish are gorgeous, but how reef safe are they? Searching online real quick it says they'll eat inverts and corals. What's your experience with the pair?

I'm not sure if this counts as DIY, but I wasn't sure where to stick it! Thought I'd explain how my HOB overflow is set up. This set up truly is as flood proof as any system moving water from one container to another can be. It is not complicated, it does not require lots of after market modding or expensive after market equipment. I have a HOB overflow and a return pump. Eventually here I'll add an Aqualifter pump when I install the actual HOB box I have. That's a $12 pump to improve performance... much like all the various gurgle buster, durso stands, blah, blah, blah added to drilled tanks. There's always a way to tweek things! The current tank shots are dusty, sorry... busy with kids. Lately here I feel less like a Mom and more like a chauffer, but that's another topic (oh the joys of teenagers). Let's start with a picture of my under the tank set up. This whole thing is very DIY and I am very much learning as I go. This is my original set up. A 10g fuge with a DIY overflow into a 20g sump. Great in theory, did not hold up (DIY overflow got dirty and stopped working, this is the main failure of this type of overflow). This is one instance where a DIY overflow (or any overflow) is NOT a good idea, I could not flood proof the 10g tank. I now have a 20g long drilled fuge overflowing into the 20g tall sump. No loss of siphon = no chance of a flood. And this is the #1 factor when installing a HOB overflow. Plan for loss of siphon. If you do that, you won't have floods. Look at how clean everything was when first installed! This is much harder to explain than to put into practice so if I loose ya, well, I've probably derailed my own train of thought so don't feel bad asking questions! Top side in your display tank you want to set the intake of the overflow high enough that when the siphon is lost minimal water will drain into the sump area, however don't run the water level at the rim of the tank, give yourself a little play. You will always have some back flow when your return pump cuts off and the water in the tank drains down because the water level will be slightly higher in the tank than the overflow lip. Not a big deal, just plan for it. There are calculators on the net that help determine the volume of water drained down 'x' inches over 'y' area. Blah, math. You will also need to drill a hole ABOVE the water level on what ever apparatus you're using to return water to the tank. Drill it just above water level. This breaks the siphon on the return just as soon as you loose water flow, also helps prevent back flow into the sump. Here is a picture of my PVC DIY siphon fed overflow. This is about to be replaced as soon as I get motivated to redo my plumbing with a overflow box, simply because I want more flow and a bigger overflow area. This is with the water flowing. Now, down below in your sump you need to create at least two chambers, preferably with baffles to a.) set the water level in the sump lower than the full capacity b.) create a small return pump chamber c.) keep the water level for your skimmer absolutely consistent no matter what the state of your ATO (or lack there of) and d.) work as a bubble trap. You also need to make sure that your sump can contain all the back flow from your display tank when the return pump is cut off. Just like for drilled tanks. IE- Don't skimp, get a big enough sump for your tank. Again, this goes back to that math formula. Find out the volume that will drain from your DT and make sure the sump is big enough to handle the additional volume. Here is a pic of the water level in the sump when the siphon is running. Note the fancy tape line? That's the 'do not fill beyond this point' line. It's actually a bit conservative, I can fill it higher and still have plenty of room in the sump for the DT to drain (better safe than sorry though and it's easy for husbands to understand). The smaller return chamber on the left probably holds about 2g of water, maybe a bit more. Just fine as a top off area and return chamber. Note the bits of media floating around? That's what happens when you let a 3 year old help with tank mainetance and he accidentally drops a media tray in the sump exploding its contents. *sigh* Kids are wonderful. So, what happens when the overflow looses siphon? And yea, they will sometimes. Supposedly if you use an Aqualifter it totally eliminates loss of siphon. I'll find out eventually here. Basically when the siphon is lost the overflow stops draining, so the return pump empties the return chamber. The water level in the tank rises over the level of the overflow intake like this, it's hard to see but when the pump runs out of water in my sump the level of water in the display goes up maybe 1/4" over the top of the overflow. No where close to flooding out of the tank: Down below in the sump the return chamber is as empty as the pump can make it (not bone dry though so the pump is ok), all the water has been pumped up into the tank but because of the baffles only a gallon or two can be pumped up before there simply is no more water to pump, this prevents a flood in the DT: That's really all there is to it. Control the amount of water that can be drained, control the amount of water that can be pumped into the tank and you have a completely controlled and flood proof HOB overflow.

That's gorgeous Mark! I love the magnet idea, how clever. Would you mind elaborating on just how you mounted it and what kind of magnet? If it hasn't sold by next week (wishful thinking) I'll come into town and get it. Just too much going on till then.

I have no issues with hand collecting for our tanks. Its silly to think its somehow more ethical for the pros to collect en mass than for individuals to carefully select a few creatures to take home. That said, if you're going to collect you should do so responsibly. Sand dollars do not fare well in captivity. They need very, very large tanks (6 square feet +) with very deep (6"+) well established sand beds. Otherwise they will starve do death. Many things are best left in the ocean. Teoahnna, these wouldn't make it in your tank or mine either for that matter.

LOL! I bought him a single baby octopus at central market one time and had to explain that it was for an eel. I'm so glad his eye cleared up. Both were really cloudy when I got him. The one had cleared and the other improved before I gave him to you. I think I told you, but the lady I got him from had only ever fed him live FW feeder fish. Yuck. He really is a neat animal, but I sure don't miss his aquascaping the tank to make tunnels. I'm so glad the goby is doing well. I wonder what got him the first time?