Redbugs

[medi]

I know this has been a topic of several blogs and threads recently, but I have been unable to find the info. I am specifically looking for. I guess I should start with the issue. For about the past month I have noticed a severe decrease in polyp extension from my smooth skinned acros. I haven't been able to find a source of the problem until last night when I got out my handy dandy red light and started looking around. My tri-colored nana was crawling with redbugs. I didn't see them on any other acros, but I can only assume they are there. I have a limited understanding of how to treat with interceptor, but I am definitely going to treat in the coming weeks. I can setup a very simple QT, but unfortunately nothing that would be able to support SPS for a couple of weeks. Would it do me any good to treat in a QT for the recommended six hours and then put the SPS back in the display, or would I just be wasting my time? I understand it might not get the eggs, but obviously I am prepared to do multiple treatments. I don't mind treating the display, but I have a couple of shrimp and several crabs that I am sure I will be unable to catch. Also, I am not willing to tear down my display to catch them. Has anyone had any luck keeping them alive during the treatment? Or does anyone know of a good way to catch 'em?

In the past I have not been dipping my incoming corals. I know I am going to catch heat for this, but I will simply throw the lazy card and move on. Anyways....lesson learned....I will now dip all incoming corals. What dips are everyone doing to their new corals? I know kent makes a coral dip, but from what I have read this is pretty much ineffective for redbugs. Should I just start doing an intercepter Rx to all new corals? Or maybe interceptor and lugol's? or maybe go extreme and combine kent's coral dip, interceptor, and lugol's? I definitely don't think the last one is necessary, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Finally...Does anyone have any interceptor they would be willing to sell, or know how much this costs from the vet.?

As always thank ya'll very much for any advice.

[+mcallahan]

talk to dapettit. He just went through it with much success.

[Derek]

I thought Dave had flat worms. Are Red Bugs a type of flat worm?

[+dapettit]

I wouldn't treat one coral. I would treat the whole tank. Here are a couple of links on how to treat with interceptor,

I suggest reading these two articles first before starting your treatment..

The test: The test thread

The cure: The Cure link

Also check out my blog. I have chronicaled my treatment (see the link at the bottom in my signature).

Finding the interceptor was the hard part. My vet dosen't carry it and I have a small dog. If you have a dog, take the article to your vet and explain what you want to do. If you don"t have a dog find a freind who does and present the information to his vet. You will need the Interceptor White. A box of six is around $50.00.

Good luck,

Dave-

[Reybeast]

I have an Ultralife Aquarium fishtrap (4x9) that you could borrow to catch the shrip and crabs with. I'm in Gtown too.

Rey

[reefman]

Call Cedar Park Animal Hospital. Explain to the lady there what you need it for. They have in the past sold me the pills 1 or two at a time. I think it was $12.00 a pill (which should be enough for one treatment of the tank).

Stephen

[+dapettit]

One pill treats 380 gallons. Since my totla water volume is 180 I used half a pill. I will have a half left over aftermy final treatment Saturday that you are welcomed to.

Dave-

[medi]

I wouldn't treat one coral. I would treat the whole tank. Here are a couple of links on how to treat with interceptor,

I suggest reading these two articles first before starting your treatment..

The test: The test thread

The cure: The Cure link

Also check out my blog. I have chronicaled my treatment (see the link at the bottom in my signature).

Finding the interceptor was the hard part. My vet dosen't carry it and I have a small dog. If you have a dog, take the article to your vet and explain what you want to do. If you don"t have a dog find a freind who does and present the information to his vet. You will need the Interceptor White. A box of six is around $50.00.

Good luck,

Dave-

Sounds simple enough....The only question I have now is how did you measure it down to the Mg? Since I have a smaller tank I figure it is very important to be precise.

[medi]

I have an Ultralife Aquarium fishtrap (4x9) that you could borrow to catch the shrip and crabs with. I'm in Gtown too.

Rey

Thanks very much for the offer. I may have to take you up on that, but I need to get some sort of QT set up first. I have never used one of these traps. Is it pretty effective to catch shrimp?

[Reybeast]

it actually works too well, you trap the guys you dont want first. It has a fishing line string to the door so you can open or close it without sticking your hands in the tank. Let me know if you want to try it, its just sitting my the garage on the shelf.

Rey

[medi]

Well I picked up a couple of intercepter tabs from Cedar Park Animal Clinic, thanks Stephen for recommending them, and am now in the planning stages for my attack on those little red pains in the a**. Hopefully all goes well and I am able to catch my shrimp and crabs.

[+dapettit]

Sounds simple enough....The only question I have now is how did you measure it down to the Mg? Since I have a smaller tank I figure it is very important to be precise.

Since each pill treats 380 gallons I just cut mine in half (my water volume is about 180 gallons). What size tank are you treating? Actual/estmated water volume?

My observations: One treatment may be enough. I decided to be a little cautious. Some folks suggest using the whole pill for one treatment. But they had a cyano and GHA break outs. Also, all invertebrates were lost. I've done 2 treatments and only lost one of our skunk cleaner shrimps.

[+dapettit]

I thought Dave had flat worms. Are Red Bugs a type of flat worm?

Nope just the red b*st*rds. I believe red bugs actually keep the flat worms in check. I haven't seen any bite marks on my Acro's so I'm guessing I don't have flat worms.

Dave-

[muddybluewater]

Red bugs do not lay eggs they are live birth. Their life span with out a host is 3-4 days, They will only host acros. They will not host millis or montis. I treated my acros out of my tank in a QT for 5 days and it has been several weeks with no sign of any bugs. One 5 day treatment. I treated them for 12 hours and then did a 80% water change with tank water. I did a second water change on day 3. I then left them in the QT for 2 more days . On the 5th day I retreated for 2 hours and then returned everything to the display tank. my 2 cents

[muddybluewater]

This is where my info came from. It is copied from Eric Borneman and is not my writing.

I am trying to get the site up. Here is the information from that page

""Suggested Treatment Protocol

Based on my observations and work described here, I suggest the following as a treatment protocol for Acropora colonies that have been colonized by the parasitic copepod, Tegastes acroporanus ("red bugs") as a modification of the novel protocol developed by Dorton. The process is more labor intensive, but should be more effective in preventing any future need to treat Tegastes-parasitized Acropora in the display tank (provided quarantine is utilized for any new coral acquisitions). It should also help to reduce the current epizootic within reef aquaria by limiting the potential for spread between tanks by trading or purchase of Tegastes-colonized fragments or colonies.

1. Assume that every Acropora in the tank is colonized, even if there are not visible copepods on the colony.

rationale: copepods are cryptic on normally colored colonies, can be cryptic on pale colonies, and are small enough to be easily missed by examination through tank glass or even by direct observation with the naked eye. Furthermore, the copepods are motile, and swim between colonies. Therefore, any colonies removed for treatment may leave unnoticed indivuiduals on other colonies or allow for copepods that abandon hosts being removed for treatment to locate uncolonized Acropora.

2. All Acropora colonies should be removed from the tank and placed into a container for examination. This can be perfored one colony at a time. A magnifying glass, magnifying lamp, dissecting scope or some other method should be used to slowly and carefully examine each colony from every possible angle. The corals will tolerate extended handling periods out of water to facilitate examination. The copepods will be covered with a smooth and somewhat shny carapace and with coral mucus and a thin film of water. Without examination from multiple light incidence angles, it is possible that individuals will go undetected. If a colony is too large or too densely branched to allow for a complete examination, consider it to be colonized. Any colonies that are determing to be free of copepods can be placed into a quarantine tank without treatment, but I would suggest reexamination prior to reintroduction to the main display tank.

rationale: Examination by the naked eye is insuficient to detect all copepods.

3. All Acropora colonies found to have copepods present should be treated in a treatment tank or container where dose levels and colonies can be carefully monitored. The treatment tank can be large or small, and can be used to treat many colonies at once or one at a time. The water should be circulating strongly across colonies to not only for drug exposure but to help dislodge dead copepods. Following treatment, each colony should be re-examined in water under magnification to ensure 100% kill rates. Copepods still attached to the coral can be probed with a needle, pin, pipette or syringe and removed from the colony. If copepods are found to still exhibit any motion, retreatment should occur immediately.

rationale: treatment in the tank should be avoided for several reasons: a) it will be impossible to assess whether or not a 100% kill rate has been achieved; b) in tank treatment will result in mass loss of other suscpetible species including amphipods, shrimps, lobsters, crabs, polychaetes, nematodes, copepods, and possibly other invertebrates which have not been tested for toxicity to the drug ; and c) repeated treatments can result in resistance making future treatments more difficult.

4. Treatment dosage appears to flexible, if not variable. Given the apparent low toxicity to corals even at elevated dosages, I would suggest a dose level equal or higher (up to 10x) than suggested by Dorton. Dorton suggestes three separate treatments of six hours. Upon examination of treated colonies, six hours appears to be insufficient for a 100% kill rate, while 12 hours seems to be more effective. In the one test where coral mortality was observed, the treatment time was only six hours, and in all other tests, no ill effects to the coral were seen with extended treatment times. It appears that time, and not dosage level, is the critical variable towards providing 100% kill rates for the copepods. Regardless of the dose or treatment duration, all colonies should be carefully examined before they are removed from treatment. For colonies being treated that are too large or densely branched to allow for examination, the treatment should be continued for 24 hours with careful monitoring to ensure that the colonies are enduring the treatment well and that the water does not become fouled from excessive mucus production, other fauna killed during treatment, or other stressors. If these conditions occur, treatment tank water should be dumped into buckets, sterilized by the addition of bleach to the water, and disposed down a sanitary sewage line. The treatment tank should then be refilled with tank water and new drug added to the water.

5. All treated corals and completely free of Tegastes acroporanus, as well as those examined and found to be uncolonized (#2 above), should be placed into a quarantine tank filled with tank water filtered through a coffee filter or other filtration apparatus. The quarantine tank should have filtration, water flow and light sufficient to keep treated colonies alive for five days.

6. No Acropora should remain in or be placed back into the main display tank for five days. This is the longest period of time it has taken for any Tegastes acroporanus to survive without a host from observations to date. This assumes that there are no other surrogate hosts for this species, and that the observations of death from 3-5 days without a host are realistic of what would occur in a display tank.

rationale: It is possible, even likely, that during the removal of colonized Acropora, some copepods swim off the colony into the tank. They will seek out other hosts. It is also possible that some are in the tank at any moment seeking new hosts, even without the process of colony removal. As far as can be ascertained, they are direct developers and thus do not have a free-swimming larval stage and they do not lay eggs on the host or substrates that can later hatch. However, they can live without a host for several days. Ensuring that any copepods left in the tank after removal of hosts die requires, at my best estimate, 3-5 days. I suggest five days to be conserative.

7. After five days, colonies in quarantine should be re-examined under magnification and if found to be free of copepods, can be returned to the display tank. If copepods are found on any colonies, repeat steps 3-7."

_____________________

Eric Borneman

[+dapettit]

I wish I had seen this during my search! Oh well . . .

[reefman]

I just had a thought (I know, I scare myself when I do that). Since these are copepods, does having one or more mandarins, or other fish that eat pods, keep them in check?

Stephen

[muddybluewater]

The only fish that I know of that eats red bugs is the Dragonface pipefish.

[medi]

Great info, but I think I may still end up going the whole tank route. It sounds much simpler and is still pretty effective. I have figured out my dose is roughly .075 Grams for my size tank. Pretty tiny dose. Anyone know what kind of scale you use to measure these weights?

[offroadodge]

i think that a HYDROPONICS store could hook you up with a digital gram scale!!!! Dont know how i would know this but maybe back i my younger days is where i got the info. Or the food services place on rundberg lane and lamar. I have a scale i used for mixing my salt(anal i guess), but it doesnt measure smaller than 1/4lbs.

[muddybluewater]

The exact amount is not that critical. Crush the pill divide it into 4 parts (100g each). Then use the amount you need based on your total volume

[+Bmwaaron]

Red bug treatment with interceptor is not a big deal. I would remove the crabs you really care about and dose. I have not seen a shrimp die from Interceptor at a regular dose. I have dose at over 2 times the recommendations and had crabs and Shrimp live no problem. Just don't take the chance if it's an animal you really care about. I would do a whole tank and then re dose in 7 days. You dint need to do a huge water change. I usually run carbon 12 hours after dosing.