+Hydro Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) Since I started my tank about 8 months ago my PH has never been above 8.0, no matter what buffer I add. The buffer will raise my KH but does nothing to my PH. I have tried kent dkh, seachem reef builder, and seachem marine buffer. Currently my calcium is 420, KH is 10.2, and PH is between 7.9 and 8.0. I can't add more buffer because it just makes the KH go higher and higher and does nothing to the PH. I have tested the PH with a cheap test kit that showed it at 8.0, well I thought that was my problem so I bought a nice Hannah meter and it said the same thing. Just to be sure I even bought different calibration solution and checked the meter again, it was right on. I know that if there is low levels of dissolved oxygen in the water that the PH will be low. I use well water run through an RO filter, which has no dissolved oxygen, for my water changes and top off which I now oxygenate with airstones before I use it. I've also read that where the tank is setup there are high levels of co2 then there won't be a sufficient amount of oxygen exchange. My tank is in my office and the co2 levels are usually between 700-1500 ppm. It is an enclosed space and a couple of people are in there at all times which raises co2 levels (I sell co2 monitors that is why I was able to easily check this). Well I thought that was my problem so I bought a decent sized air pump and put it out in my garage, I ran 4 airlines though the wall (I already had holes for plumbing my chiller and top off) and attached air stones which I dropped down my overflow tubes. This is a good place to put them b/c there is no salt spray/creep from the air bubbles breaking the surface, they are actually sucked down in to the sock in the sump. This way I have fresh air constantly being introduced to the water....well all of this made NO difference. Any ideas anyone? It's been like this for 8 months and all livestock and corals are doing great, will they do better if the PH is higher? Edited December 19, 2009 by Hydro Innovations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooric Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 You may want to check out this thread as an option. CO2 scrubber - raise (and maintain) your ph for less than $50 - Austin Reef Club Moo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 THANK YOU I will be ordering that right now and will post my results here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Next time you see a buy going on for Bulk Reef Supply try their 2 part kit. It is easy to mix and is a lot more affordable than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeperKeeper Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Chris, is the 2 part from BRS a better deal than the one they refill at Aquatek for (I think) $3.99? I believe the brand is DT's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 ok I read more about the co2 scrubber and I don't think that it will help me after all. It scrubs the air for the skimmer. I had actually thought of the skimmer intake already and a month ago I ran the air intake tubing out to my garage, forgot to mention that. At a glance I thought tankwater was passed through the co2 scrubber. So I've got 4 air stones and the skimmer air intake drawing from my garage, and the garage door is always open. Could co2 still be a problem? I guess the smart thing for me to do is test the oxygen levels in my tank. I have never seen this test but it does exist right? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Chris, is the 2 part from BRS a better deal than the one they refill at Aquatek for (I think) $3.99? I believe the brand is DT's. Base price with out discounts for their 2 part kit is $12 (1 gallon of ea. Ca & Kh, 20 oz. Mag) I just bought the Large kit for $56 on sale(7-8gal of ea and 3gal of mag) 2 part kit How much do you get for $3.99? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Daniel Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 What is your Mg (magnesium)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Mg is 1,100 which is a little low. Is that low enough for it to cause my problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 ya dose a little magnesium. It is the binder between KH n calcium. Get it up to around 1350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Will that make any difference for my PH, my Ca and KH levels are steady now? I will dose Mg today for sure, I need to go to the store to get some additive, what brand would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Daniel Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I was having chronically low pH. Always between 7.9-8.1. My Mg was a little low, plus water changes, problem solved. Do you run a refugium? It might help if you had some macroalgae on a reverse photocycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 yes I do have a refugium but it has a couple of puffers in it, so I really can't run it opposite my other lights. If I did they would never get any sleep, they need to rest up so they can eat like pigs during the day. What is odd to me is that my tap/well water PH is around 8.3, but after mixing buffer and salt it comes down to 8.0. I don't understand that unless the salt is what lowers the PH. Does an RO filter lower the PH? I got some Mg and will be doing a 60 gallon water change today. Since my system is 300 gallons total it will take several bottles of Mg to bring it up...according to the instructions. It takes 1/2 of a smaller bottle (that is all they had) to raise it 25 ppm, so probably 8 to get me near 1300. Does that seem right? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 What are you keeping and why does it matter to you if your PH is spot on at 8.4? You have not given any parameters of the tank itself. Are you keeping a reef tank full of acros that keep losing their colors? Are your fish dying? Many of the people I've spoken to seem to have issues keeping their water above 8.1 anyways. I dose a lot of Kalk into my system and have never had my PH swing (granted I'm dripping water with a PH of about 12 into my tank). It's just not clear as to what this influences. If your tank is doing well and growing out nicely, if a reef, or if your fish are healthy, then I ask "why try to fix it"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 That pic was just of my refugium, my display tank has lots of corals and some tangs. My water paramters are in my original post which are 0 nitrates, 0 phosphates, 420 Ca, 1,100 Mg, 10.2 KH, and PH between 7.9-8.0. Acros are doing great and fish are doing fine. I actually did a big water change (72 gallons) about 3 weeks ago that I didn't oxgenate the water first, which was a mistake because it was well water with no dissolved oxygen. The PH was to low and I didn't check it first, Ph went down to about 7.6 and caused an ich outbreak with my tangs that I'm still dealing with. Other than that everything is doing great. I just wondered if my corals and fish would do better with a little higher PH. I'm with you, if it isn't broke don't fix it, I just wondering if there was something that I was missing. Do you have anything added to your top off water to make it have a ph of 12? Or is that how it comes out of the ro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfreak73 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 It sounds to me like you may have an ionic imbalance due to low Mg. Seachem has a good article about it here: aquavitroâ„¢. Calcium, Magnesium and Ionic Imbalance I am in no way affiliated with Seachem , but I have had many good support experiences with their tech support folks. I use their aquavitro line exclusively to maintain my basic water parameters (pH, alkalinity, calcium, magnesium) with good results. I find the dosing easy and their instructions clear. Also, if I do have any questions, I can tell you from past experience that I will receive excellent support if I need to contact them. Hope this helps. /sf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyB Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Steven you need to maintain a constant and stable salinity level. Buffers will predominantly modify your kh, but consitent salinty will hold your ph in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Very interesting link, thanks for that. It will take time but I will gradually bring up my Mg and hopefully my ph will come up too. I tried to raise my Mg a few months back and added several bottles and it didn't make any difference, I will try again and stick with it until I get the levels up. I bought some locally but can't use it because both containers are hard as a rock. Should I stick with seachem? Is there something better? I'm just going to order it online. Hi WesleyB, my salinity is stable and has been since we started, I keep it at 1.025. I think it has to be the low Mg, it has always been low, I didn't think that it would effect my PH but after reading that link it makes sense. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfreak73 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Very interesting link, thanks for that. It will take time but I will gradually bring up my Mg and hopefully my ph will come up too. I tried to raise my Mg a few months back and added several bottles and it didn't make any difference, I will try again and stick with it until I get the levels up. I bought some locally but can't use it because both containers are hard as a rock. Should I stick with seachem? Is there something better? I'm just going to order it online. I use aquavitro 'ions' (Seachem) to maintain Mg. I had to dose at the maximum dosage recommended for a few days until my Mg levels were where I wanted (900 when I started dosing). It can take quite bit to get to the recommended level, but once there you should only have to dose maybe twice a week. (One school of reef keeping would have you make small doses daily rather than larger doses twice a week). A word on the aquavitro line: you probably won't find it online. Because it's Seachem's "premium" line, they only sell it in retail, brick-n-mortar stores. I've only found it at AquaTek here in town. /sf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Epsom salt is cheaper (magnesium sulfate). I used it for a while when i was out of my BRS kits with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dapettit Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I have been using Epsom Salt for years. You might find this calculator helpful: Reef Calculator Dave- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfreak73 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 While Epsom salt will certainly work for raising magnesium, one of the other reasons I prefer aquavitro 'ions' is that it includes strontium and boron. Please don't take this as knocking the Epsom salt method...plenty of so-called 'old school' methods have worked wonderfully for years. I just personally prefer supplements targeted at reef keeping. /sf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 How much does the Seachem cost and how large are the bottles? With regular water changes you should not have worry about stronium or boron if you are using a good salt. I add 100ml ea of Ca and Kh daily and about 200ml of mag a week. The last order I made was17-20gallons for $56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+dapettit Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 While Epsom salt will certainly work for raising magnesium, one of the other reasons I prefer aquavitro 'ions' is that it includes strontium and boron. Please don't take this as knocking the Epsom salt method...plenty of so-called 'old school' methods have worked wonderfully for years. I just personally prefer supplements targeted at reef keeping. /sf None taken just offering up alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I will go by aquatek this weekend to get the aquavitro, sounds like that will work for me. My strontium is a little low too so this sounds like the product I need. I'm tempted to use epson salt to raise Mg, I have some and have used it for plants for years. But with needing to raise strontium levels too it makes sense to try the aquavitro. muddybluewater The seachem that I bought was $8 for 10 ozs...which is enough to treat my tank for 2 days only raising the level 50 ppm (according to the label). I do 10% water changes every 2 weeks and use either instant ocean or red sea salt. Would you consider these brands good salts? Thanks very much for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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