rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hello guys and gals. I just signed up for this yesterday and wanted to say thank you for having me. Seems like some nice folks on here. Please take a look at this and see if this is dying and what can I do to save it or make it beautiful again. coral.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneroller Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Welcome. Tell us about your setup, that will everyone to get a better idea of what's ok or not. There are so many factors that can contribute to your reef tank's health. How long has it been set up? I have never kept a scroll coral (I think) so I can't say for sure but it looks like part of the coral is dying off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 It looks that way. When did you get it? How did you acclimate it? What type of lighting is it under? Is it touching any other corals? What are your water parameters? I have this same type of Coral. Let us know your findings ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Let me start by saying that I can tell I'm going to learn a ton from you guys which is exactly why I signed up. Also Renman303 I saw the letter that you posted from Moody Gardens ...this was very cool. You can tell you have passion for this. Now on to the subject at hand. I bought the tank from a gentleman on Craigslist and am using a lot of what came with it. And only added what certain LFS told me would be safe. Tank is 135 gallon 6' x 22" tall by 12". (old school tank from what he said. Have to t5 lights one blue the other white (prob need more) Berlin 25 to 250 gallon triple pass protien skimmer Ehiem Typ 2217 canister aqua clear 110 hang on. Aquadome said all the parameters were fine (need to invest in my own kit so any info on affordable kits would be helpful) I have a small panther grouper, a medium sized lionfish, small brown starfish, and a one foot green brittle star and just bought a 45 piece clean up crew of snails from capitol city aquatics on sunday (had about 10 large turbos but they eventually started landing on backs (my favorite place...great guys with good info) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 oops. renman if you look at the top right hand side of the pic you can see the hitchhiker anemone that is kind of touching the coral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddybluewater Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 What is your ph, kh, Ca? Are you doseing any thing like a 2 part suppliment to keep you Kh and ph stable? Kh is the most critical to remain stable(IMO) It will keep your ph stable. At night when your lights are off your ph will drop drastically if your kh is not maintained around 10dkh. Also I don't like canister filters for reef tanks they breed nitrates. If you want to keep it you should take out everything and just run carbon in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 The hitchhiker is probably an "Aptasia"...get rid of it...However, that is not the problem that you are having. How long has the tank been up and running BEFORE you added any animals? When did you get it? How did you acclimate it? If you've had your water tested and the coral has not been in there very long. It may be in shock. With the very little lighting that you have I would suggest that you put it near the top of the tank close to the lights. I'm running 3 Metal Halides at 400w each plus 4 T5's at 54w each. Do you have good water movement? If not, go buy a surplus pump to put in the tank to get the water moving. What are your water parameters??? I know you said they were good but, what are they? When did you have the water tested? If it's been awhile and you have not checked the water in awhile the parameters may be drastically off! Also, I do 10% water changes EVERY WEEK. Nothing is off in my tank because it doesn't go very long before being re supplemented. What are you supplementing your water with in terms of Alkalinity and Calcium? These are the two most important chemicals. You must have some sort of Calcium Carbonate and some sort of Sodium Carbonate to keep the Calcium at about 425-450 and the dKH should be about 8-12. You may have to monitor these daily for awhile. This is from Drs Foster and Smith website:Scroll Coral Turbinaria sp. vary in the amount of care they require. Those that are highly convoluted or thin plates, like this one, are the most difficult to care for. It is a peaceful reef inhabitant and does not bother other corals that are placed in close proximity to it. However, it should still be provided with ample space away from other corals because it does grow quickly. It will require a medium light level combined with a medium water movement within the aquarium. For its continued good health, it will also require the addition of calcium, strontium, and other trace elements to the water. It will benefit from additional food in the form of brine shrimp or plankton. Ruffled Ridge Coral (Turbinaria sp.) QUICK STATS Care Level: Difficult Temperament: Peaceful Lighting: Moderate Waterflow: Medium Placement: All Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.023-1.025 Color Form: Green, Tan, Yellow Supplements: Calcium, Strontium, Trace Elements Origin: Fiji, Tonga Family: Dendrophylliidae Polyp Size: SPS - Small Polyp Stony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneroller Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Doesn't sound like the scroll coral is a beginner's coral. IMO I wouldn't add any more coral to the tank until you get things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I agree with Stoneroller. Take it from me, I wasted about $3k worth of fish and corals before I stopped the insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 +1 for above. I think I would focus more on flow than lights though. Also, that species needs lots of supplemental feeding if it can get it from what it looks like online. If you get any polyp extension you may want to try feeding something like cyclop-eeze or reef roids. There is a chance it is not getting enough energy because of the lights and lack of feeding and is "starving" to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 thanks guys your a wealth of info! Sorry it took so long I had to do some cemistry! The hitchhiker is probably an "Aptasia"...get rid of it...However, that is not the problem that you are having. How long has the tank been up and running BEFORE you added any animals? When did you get it? How did you acclimate it? If you've had your water tested and the coral has not been in there very long. It may be in shock. With the very little lighting that you have I would suggest that you put it near the top of the tank close to the lights. I'm running 3 Metal Halides at 400w each plus 4 T5's at 54w each. Do you have good water movement? If not, go buy a surplus pump to put in the tank to get the water moving. What are your water parameters??? I know you said they were good but, what are they? When did you have the water tested? If it's been awhile and you have not checked the water in awhile the parameters may be drastically off! Also, I do 10% water changes EVERY WEEK. Nothing is off in my tank because it doesn't go very long before being re supplemented. What are you supplementing your water with in terms of Alkalinity and Calcium? These are the two most important chemicals. You must have some sort of Calcium Carbonate and some sort of Sodium Carbonate to keep the Calcium at about 425-450 and the dKH should be about 8-12. You may have to monitor these daily for awhile. The tank was running about 5 weeks before any animals. The coral was just dropped in with I guess some bad advice? Got the coral about 2 months ago. Great lighting set up you have there! Reefaholic you live in Buda as well as I do maybe one day you can stop buy and give me some tips??!?!?! I'm sure ill be embarresed for the lack of knowledge but I promise I'll catch on fast! The coral has been in there for about 2 months just noticed this about 2 days ago. The water movement comes from a single number 3 coraline propellor. I have not used any supplements at all but here are the readings: Calcium = 460 PH = 8.4 Alkalinity=300 KH= 19dkh Phoshate=1.5 Nitrate=20 So what would you experts suggest? A water change? Aslo, the aptasia what the easiest safest way to get rid of them...I have a bunch! Anyone want any...hahaha lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Your alkalinity (dKH) is WAAAAYYYY too high. Should be between 8-12. Mine is constantly around 8 or 9. Cindy and Robert Manning (cmanning) have the same. That is where I learned a lot of this. Nitrate=20 is also way too high. Do a 20% water change. In about 2 days do another 10% to bring things down rapidly but not enough to cause anything to go into shock over such a huge change at once.Keep doing changes until your water dKH is NO HIGHER than 12. I would get it to about 10. Aptasia...Just buy about 3 Peppermint Shrimp....after the water changes. Keep us posted. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would be worried about the nitrates on this tank. Also, KH is high AND CA is high which is really wierd. Also a single K3 is not any where near enough flow. For this kind of coral you really should have a minimum of 20 or 30X flow. Hate to say it but you really might want to get this to someone with a well established sps tank. Even if only to hold until you could get more light and bring your system into more normal parameters for an SPS tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Sounds good. Ill do this right now. As far as the peppermint shrimp wont the fish that I have eat these? (Panther grouper, Lionfish) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Yes, they will get eaten...my bad. You can get a syringe and inject them at the base with RO/DI...I believe? Which reminds me...where are you getting your water from? Please don't say, "Out of the tap". You need RO/DI water to mix your salt in. Otherwise Phosphates will be high. Which reminds me again....what is your Specific Gravity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 so should I buy another k3? I thought the CA should be around 400-500? Also you stated I should remove the bioballs and netting from the canister. Is this temporary or permenant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Get rid of the Bio-Balls and netting. It's just a trap for Nitrates. This is permanent. You need a good sump for your setup. I use a 120 gallon feed troth! I do have a 55 gallon tank that you could easily make into a sump. It's $50 if you are interested. Buy a really good pump like an "Eheim 1262". That should do the trick for cycling the water but you still need movement in the tank itself. I'm a big fan of "MaxiJet 1200's". They are cheap...about $30 and move 295 gallons per hour. If you like they have an add on impeller that causes them to move about 3 times the water for about a $10 upcharge. I would get 2 of these to start. Ca should not be over 450. Keep it in the 425-450 range. If it falls to 400 nothing is going to die but 425 is ideal. Use that canister only to move water. If you ever need to, you could add Carbon. I personally never run carbon unless there is a water problem. You should come up and see my setup. I also have a blog that will show you most of what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 I did the 20% water change. I will do the cleaning of the canister tomorrow Acura wants me to work early and stay late! I always thought the media in the canister would be a problem. Thank you guys for confirming this. Renman I would love to take you up on your offer to see your set up. I love this site ! It has gotten me back on track and am meeting some really cool people. I will prob. take you up on your offer on the 55gal also but be prepared to give some advise on how to build it. LOL. I had a 55gal fresh water tank and when I purchased this one I sold it. I wish had known! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 BTW....I would highly suggest you get a tablet to take notes on. I use an accounting book because of it's ruled lines and columns. In the first I put the date. Then, "dKH", "Ca", "Mg", "Salinity", "Other". I would immediately start a running log with the readings that you first had. Then, with yesterday's date list the 20% water change. Anytime you do ANYTHING, list it. Then you can look back to see what the outcome was and how to correct potential problems. On the line under the columns where you list the readings I write stuff like; "Did 10% water change, added 50ml of Mg". Here is a copy of one of the pages of my log...Hope this helps. aquarium log.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneroller Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Reefaholic you live in Buda as well as I do maybe one day you can stop buy and give me some tips??!?!?! I'm sure ill be embarresed for the lack of knowledge but I promise I'll catch on fast! I'd be glad to stop by sometime but I'll be outta town Friday through Sunday. I also recommend double checking the KH. What kit did you use? I suspect it could be a inaccurate measurement unless you are adding something to the water. If so, what is it? I can bring my kits over to test it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbnj Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) I've had a Pagoda Cup for about 9 months now. Mine's pretty hardy (I'd say the same care as a Montipora), so there must be something going on with your water parameters. I ran a canister filter for the first 6 months and took it off the last 6 months. The only difference I've seen is in my wallet (cost of carbon & pads) and the effort to clean the canister. I also had occasional cyano outbreaks with the canister running...probably due to to phosphates/nitrates. I wanted to remove the canister earlier, but between my fear of something going wrong and the fact that I wasted over $200 on the **** thing, I was reluctant. Like most people will tell you, they're really not necessary on a reef. I do keep it around in case I ever stir up the sand too badly or my ammonia were to spike for some reason. Also, I got lazy a couple of months ago and was dosing calcium without testing. I lost a few SPS acros almost overnight and my green Montipora started looking like your coral. I tested the calcium and it was around 480. With proper calcium levels since then (approx 420), my Montipora is back to normal. Lesson learned....there are no shortcuts in this hobby. BTW, I don't know if you mis-typed, but according to your dimensions, that is not a 135g tank.....more like 80g. Edited September 16, 2009 by pbnj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Renman. I actually started doing this when I tested my water on 9/14 so great idea on the acct log. Also going to petco to buy the Maxijet 1200 that you were speak of. They have it for 19.99. Stoneroller- I should be off next Wed the 23rd if your up for it? pbjn- Your right I did have the wrong dimentions its 6'Lx18"Wx24"t you had me worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Ok I disconnected the cannister filter and did a 10% water change. I will test the water again in about an hour to see how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman303 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 When you do your readings, do us a favor and list them here as "Before" and "After". Then we can see what progress has taken place. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrange Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Good Thought renman. Here they are. calcium before = 460...now 420 Ph before = 8.4...now 8.3 alkalinity before=300 now ...280 KH before= 19dkh...now 16 PO before= 1.5...now 1 nitrate before 20...now 20 still! and yes i am using tap water. Do you think this is part of the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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