Differences Between Lighting

[LiLS]

hey guys, noob here with a noob question...wahts the difference between the different types of lighting?

i got a CF set up right now but i heard it isnt that great for reef...

I also heard bout T5 and MH but dont know wahts the difference between them really..

which set up should i go with?

[Jbrougher]

I know alot of people like MH because of the shimmer it gives off. Most MH are paired with PC actinics. The downside to MH is that they give off alot of heat, and you have to get a chiller usually.

T5 give off a high output, without the heat, but i dont know much else.

[NonSequitur]

As I understand it, at the low end of the spectrum you have Normal Output fluorescents (NO, t8 or t12). These are often enough if all you have in your tank are fish, but generally aren't bright enough for anything but the most low-light tolerant corals unless your water is very shallow. Increasing in intensity you have Power Compacts (PC), High Output (HO) T5, and Very High Output (VHO) T5. These are what a lot of people run, they're enough for most soft corals, some of the lower light hard corals (mainly LPS - Large Polyp Stony). Above that (in cost and output) you have Metal Halide (MH). These lamps have the greatest amount of light output per watt input, plus the greatest penetration into the water column. With careful placement, they give you enough light to grow most corals, clams, etc. Just put the lower light varieties lower in the tank, possibly in the shadow of something else to kep them from getting cooked by the intense light.

MH lamps also put out the most heat, and often need to be UV shielded to keep the emitted UV light from killing everything under it.

Which one you go with is a matter of budget, aesthetics, and what you plan on growing. Many people successfully use T5 and PC lighting, but it limits you somewhat in selection and placement in the tank (higher light species need to be placed higher up in the tank to maximize the light hitting them), and many others have MH setups, or combined MH/T5 setups that they swear by.. just like anything else in this industry there are as many opinions as there are participants.

What sort of lighting are you currently running?

Edited June 9, 2009 by NonSequitur

[Robb in Austin]

'Non' summed it up fairly nicely.

T5 get called by both HO & VHO with the main difference being that VHO T5 have more power applied to them, called overdriven, in order to get more output.

To me, the benefit of T5 is little to no heat added to the tank, a tiny bit cheaper than MH, and it's easy to fine tune the color the lights add to the tank. And bulbs last longer. I've seen info that says T5 bulbs can be run up to 18 months without issue. I believe MH should be changed every 9-12 months.

With a good fixture or, a DIY fit with single reflectors for each bulb, T5 can keep anything in any tank up to ~20" deep. Deeper than that and you are pretty limited in what you can keep or you have to go MH.

[LiLS]

thanks for the info guys...right now my tank is a 75 gal long tank so it cant be more then 2 ft deep...

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=12109

and that is waht im running right now but i feel it doesnt allow me to do much at all

so you guys suggest T5 over MH for me?

[Robb in Austin]

You need an upgrade of some sort.

I'm a T5 guy for the reasons listed above.

MH is nice; shimmer, looks more intense due to a more pinpoint source, more power.

The possible need for a chiller, and associated cost, is what kept me away.

[joshman1204]

I just went to a 250w MH over my 24gallon and I couldnt be happier. I put the light about 8" over the water and just mounted a small fan to blow across the water. With the fan on my temp stays perfectly stable even with the light on. So you do not absolutely need a chiller in all cases.

[KaceyJ]

I had 3 150wt MH over a 150, and NEEDED multiple fans, or a chiller. I run a 150wt MH over a 29gl, and only use a small pc fan to cool it. My 110gl has t5ho, and only needs a VERY small fan to keep any heat at bay. Under those t5ho i grow lps/sps/polyps. after trying out all of the above choices, I prefer the T5ho. I am using less wattage than i would need to if i ran MH, and I am growing just about anything under them.

[fishypets]

Actually a good T5 fixture is far more powerful than any MH bulb. The only down side to T5's is you don't get the shimmer but after that T5's will grow any coral/clam at any location in your tank. I've actually burned corals that came out of a tank running 4X400W M.H. that were at the very top of the tank they came out of. There's a ton of people jumping ship and making the switch from M.H. to T5's and never looking back. One of the first things they comment on is how they ended up burning coral because they didn't take underestimated how powerful the fixture was and didn’t acclimate/adjust properly.

[fishypets]

Okay for comparasion here are two tanks that have measured PAR. The first tank was running a 10x54W ATI fixture and the second tank was running 1200W of M.H. lighting plus VHO tubes. You can see pound per pound T5 lighting is far more powerful.

540W of T5

1200W of M.H.

[fishypets]

Also with T5 lighting you get a very even spread of spectrum across the tank so you're not getting shaded sides of the coral. Although they do put off quite a bit of heat some of the high end fixtures incorporate active cooling fans with switch able speeds. My chiller comes on once a day around 7p. for about 30 minutes. I estimate my tank cost about $35.00 a month to run in electricity. Not bad eh?

[NonSequitur]

Not bad at all... I was working on a MH retrofit for my system.. now you've got me wondering if I should try to go with t5 instead.

Do they make shorter (16-18 inch) t5 fixtures?

[fishypets]

The shortest ATI fixture made is a 24" but I'm sure you can get a good quality fixture that's a little shorter.

[+Daniel]

*sigh*...I loved Greenmako's tank!

I use a combination of MH and T5. My chiller runs with some frequency, but that's primarily because I keep a tight temperature range (which I'm probably going to stop). I've seen some amazing tanks lit with only T5s and only MHs over the years. Colors, growth, and initial expense are all pretty similar with either route.

Honestly, it comes down to 1) what you plan to keep (what kind of "reef"? SPS-only? Mixed? Softies?) and 2) expense. T5s aren't cheap. MHs aren't cheap. If you look around, however, you can probably snag a decent deal on either.

Also, just to clarify one thing...in reference to T12 bulbs, these are what are generally referred to as "VHO"-- Very High Output. These bulbs are bigger and pack more heat than their T5, HO (High Output) counterparts. T5 bulbs, as Non-Sequiter mentioned, can be "over-driven" using an Icecap ballast. If you want to know more about that, I'll explain.

[mFrame]

I'd be interested in hearing more about overdriving a T5. I have the Current USA 30"Sundial T5 High Output Lighting 4X24 WATT with (2) SlimPaq 10,000k and (2)460nm Actinic High Output T5 lamps, but my colors just don't pop like most aquariums. (this is on a 29g 30x12x18)

Should I have different bulbs? Should I replace ballasts?

[+Daniel]

Alright, since you asked

As far as I know, overdriving your T5s only works using Icecap 660 ballasts. Also, I've read various claims that the performance gain is as high as 45%, but in other cases as low as 15%. Basically, by using an Icecap 660 ballast, you can "over drive" the bulb wattage (and light output): A standard 48" 54W T5 can be run at 80W. All this takes is a simple rewiring of the harness (I'm trying to find a link for you).

The drawback? Bulb life is reduced by a couple months. However, in order to achieve light output that resembles metal halides, some light demanding corals may necessitate an over driven bulb.

Then again, here's a tank driven by ONLY T5s, without being over driven: http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/photo-main.php/2517 (MODS: if I can't post an external link, replace with this: "Google: Iwan's reef")

Edited June 11, 2009 by Daniel

[fishypets]

Overdriving a T5 is not necessary if you buy a good fixture with good reflectors. ATI is one of the best and there are two tanks on R.C. that have won TOTM using this fixture. Every day people are making the switch from 400W M.H. to a high output T5 fixture and are reporting they're "bleaching" their sps corals because they didn't properly acclimate to the new light. Until you see for yourself how powerful a good T5 fixture is, it's hard to believe. I'm personally experiencing how many benefits of T5 lighting and so are my corals.

[fishypets]

Here are a few tanks running a good quality T5 fixture with out overdriving the bulbs.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-07/totm...s/ftsMAINsm.jpg

Edited June 11, 2009 by fishypets

[NonSequitur]

Interesting... I always thought that vho fixtures used overdriven T5s. One of the things I love about this hobby is there's always something new to learn.

[mFrame]

Selfishly, I ask, does that mean my fixture sucks, that i need different bulbs, or that I could upgrade the ballasts to icecaps? I seem to remember that a 30" fixture limits my options on a few fronts.

[fishypets]

vwmike,

Before you go changing out your lights tell us a little more about your tanks parameters. I see in your signature you have a Emperor 400. The bio-wheels in this style of filter is a nitrate sink and could contribute to your brown colors. I recommend testing for P04 and N03 using a low range test kit and going from there. Lighting is an important key but there are many other factors too that will affect colors. Just my .02

Edited June 11, 2009 by fishypets

[+Daniel]

If you're going to use one of those hang on the backs, I highly recommend you remove all the filters in it and replace it with live rock and macro algae. I did that with the Emperor 400 on my old 20gal setup and it worked well. The benefit of macro algae, again, is that they remove a lot of the pollutants in the water. Purely mechanical filtration is less important.

Also, when it comes to T5 lighting, your best bet is to have a good fixture. Individual reflectors will go a long way in improving light output. As Clint mentioned, you should be aware of other factors affecting your tank before you spend a ton of money getting new things.

[mFrame]

I've been running the Emperor 400 primarily as a fuge. It has no media or filters other than the bio wheels in it, just lost of live rock fragments. I have a ball of chaeto on one side on top of the live rock and leave the lid open for lighting (no dedicated light). I have kept the bio wheels on there (though I probably shouldn't) because the water jet makes a lot of noise if something isn't there to deflect it from hitting the plastic underneath where the wheels sit. I had forgotten that they would hold pollutants and hadn't considered them affecting colors.

I ran tests last week before my water change and was showing a lot of phosphates (almost a 2 on test). I also ran KH and alk. Plenty of calcium, but the hardness was showing over 214ppm, which i know is high. I did a 25% water change, put a phosphate pad in my emperor, and was measuring Phosphates of around .5 after that. I also took one of the two stock cartridges that fit in the emperor and loaded it with charcoal to try and prevent any chemical interaction between my bta and corals. The bta had looked a bit dinky since adding my last vivid frags.

Haven't tested for N03 lately, had taken my water in weekly when it was starting up and had been fine since cycling, but with the bio wheels you could be right. Several of my corals have a definite brown to them (Princer gave me frags of pink birds nest and purple digi) and both are basically brown. The digi has a blue sheen to it but is by no means purple. There are some pics in my gallery.

So my plan right now is to pull the bio wheels and run basic tests to recheck for nitrates and phosphates?

[fishypets]

PO4 at .5 is way too high and this would be the cause for browned out sps. Do you have a skimmer?

[LiLS]

thanks for all the good info guys, i think ill be going the T5 route, but is it possible to go the MH route without a chiller?

im a poor college kid