180 Build "Heavy"

[+Grog]

Small first post to start the thread.

Pardon my messy garage.

The 75 wasn't enough for me.   I knew this would happen.  Got a used 180 gallon today.  Thanks Tim!     Gonna fix this up and upsize the 75 gallon to this tank, moving all the live stock and live rock over.

I have a lot of work ahead.   Removing the overflows, redoing the silicone, new plumbing, building a stand etc....    Gonna be a while, but it will get done.   Pulled one overflow out today.  I'll get the other one out tomorrow and start working on the old silicone.

Apparently, this tank has a name, "Heavy".    I'll keep the name.   Renaming boats is bad luck, and probably bad for tanks.   "Heavy" it is.

Thus, it begins.

[ckyuv]

We’ll that only took you 6 months haha. Thought about lights at all? You might need another kessil for this one huh? 

[+Grog]

19 minutes ago, ckyuv said:

We’ll that only took you 6 months haha. Thought about lights at all? You might need another kessil for this one huh? 

I will most likely reuse the 2 SB Reef lights I have over the 70g tank.    I'm going to have a little less rock and coral than most reef tanks.   Want to add some larger fish.

The tank will likely have some more and some less lit areas, but I'm ok with the 'open water' area not having super high PAR.   The idea with this upgrade is to make more 'open water' for things like tangs to swim around.

Worse case, if I end up not liking it, the SB Reef lights are only $150 each and work pretty good.    I run them way less than full power.  Adding one extra would be a simple and cheap fix.   

If this is confusing, I run the Kessil on the 40g tank currently.    And yes, if I were running Kessils on this I'd definitely get more than one for this application.  Overall, I'm happy with the SB Reef lights.   They are not as sexy as the Kessil by any means.   The company's communication is terrible, but you get your product, and it works.    It would be hard for me to recommend them to others, just because their customer service is so spotty.

I'd love to have Kessils over this tank.   Just buying 3X of them would really hurt the old wallet.   

[Timfish]

I'll get you more pics of the overflow on this system that's hidden in the middle of the tank in front of the tree.  The drain is 3 inch PVC and the 2 returns go through the drain line.  With holes drilled at both ends you can use all of them or just one or two.  Getting rid of those huge overflow boxes gives you more room for aquascaping.  You could in theory have the overflow located somewhere else and hid the plumbing to the existing openings.

 

 

[Timfish]

Here's a DIY cannon you can build and hang several feet above your tank. 

 

 

[+Grog]

I started on the overflow boxes and clean up process.   Good thing we decided to remove them and replace with stand pipes.   

Like I said, I have ape strength.    Got one overflow out completely, but I broke the other box on removal.  🤪    Big shocker there.

I've decided that I will remove the old coraline from the sides.   Looks ugly on the sides IMO.    Back panel I'm still deciding.

 

[+Grog]

Got both overflows removed.   That one was stubborn.  Cleaning the sides one at a time with a razor blade and vinegar.   Vinegar is great for dissolving the coraline.

First side progress below.

There is a stain under where the overflow box was.   I cannot feel it with my hand.  I've tried the blade and vinegar, but no success.    I'm going to try a Magic Eraser tonight.   Kind of odd.  I wonder if the silicone caused permanent discoloration or etched it some.   hmm

Two pics attached.  Easier to see the stain from the outside.     Overall the tank is looking way better.

[+Grog]

I'm thinking of keeping dual overflows with the stand pipes and PVC screens on top.  Easy!    But, I'm strongly considering only keeping a single return with one large return pump.   And plugging the other return hole completely.  Less plumbing, heat, space, etc.

Thinking one of the Sicce Syncra 1321 GPH models, as that would give me 7.25X tank volume exchange per hour, for about an amp in current draw.     (Been using some other Sicce gear lately and liking it.)   I may keep a smaller spare lying around for emergencies.

Next, I'm thinking that the heater(s) belong in the sump.   Where do ya'll run them?   In the deep sand bed portion of the sump seems logical to me, but I'm open.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to plumb in a drain in the overflow or return line down in the sump area, with a barb and a line to facilitate water changes.  Open valve and pump water out.   Yes, I know I need to vacuum the sand bed, but sometimes we just don't have time.   Having the drain valve would make lazy day water changes possible.    I think the overflow would be the preferred location.      I plan on 20G water changes weekly/biweekly in this thing.   For those doing math, the water may drop below the stand pipes before I get 20G out.   I intend to have 'risers' on the stand pipes so I can control water level.

I'll likely put a pump in my Brute can to make pumping new water into the tank easier.     Having flashbacks to my old system.

Thoughts?

[+Grog]

Hmm   thinking about the above.   Maybe it would be better to use that unused return hole for the water change drain.   Put a strainer on a stand pipe about 6" high behind rock work.   Would eliminate the need for risers on the drains and I could drain the tank as much as my heart desires.

[Timfish]

The simpler you can do watr changes the better.  I've only done standpipes in sumps to facilitate water changes but I don't see why it can't be done in the display tank so long as livestock can;t get sucked into the plumping.

[+Grog]

Working on sump design.   Plan to use a 75 gallon tank as the sump.   I'll go to Lowes and get all the acrylic cut by them once I solidify the plans.  Will silicone these in.  Drawing not to scale.  

Idea is sponge for mechanical filtration. Deep sand bed across the tank.   Bubble filter, and isolation to keep sand out of return.   Return pump

Baffles
A.  First baffle on drain side, intend to have it spaced about 6" from the wall so I can get my hand in there. 15" high.

B.   Odd baffle with a ledge.   This will hold some sponge material for physical filtration, held up by the ledge, easy to remove to clean.  Haven't done the math but it will be about 9" long.

C. 9" high, leaving about 2-3" gap between B and C.  Overflows into the DSB.

D. 8.5" high, goes into bubble trap. E

E. 7" high gap in bottom.

F. 7" high flowing into return.  Spaced about 6-7" away from pump side depending on size of return pump.

Any feedback on this design is appreciated.    Thinking emergency cut at top of B in case a sponge gets SUPER clogged.   Also maybe have C a little higher to have more water on the sand bed....

 

[+Grog]

Totally edited this idea.   I almost fell victim to over engineering something when there was a cheap commercially available solution.   I found large sponge sheets that I can cut to fit the width.   So baffle B will look like this from a front view.   Black and white is baffle.  Brown is representative of the sponge.

[+Grog]

Small update here.

I've got all the boxes off.   The magic eraser helped some, but the 'stains' are still there.   Oh well.   I'll see how it looks filled during leak test.  Worst case, the stains remain and are visible.   It's on the side and back, so not a big deal.  I've removed 90% of the sealing seams.    I need to go over it with a razor tonight and some acetone.    Then tape off for resealing.   I'm not removing the top trim or the side glass or the center brace.  They are fine.  Hoping to do this over the next few days but work keeps getting in the way. 

Made a bit of a directional change though.    I'm leaning towards not having any coral in this tank and going FOWLR.    Moving all the corals from the 75 back into the 40 breeder.   This will be a huge cost savings in lights rock etc.   I can toss some cheap Hygger lights on top of the 180 and be done.    Also, this will allow me to have macros in the sump sandbed, and not worry about the DOC impacting corals.   (There are two rocks with corals in the tank, then two galaxea colonies.   Should fit in the 40 fine.)

I'm liking the more predatory, non-reef safe inhabitants lately, and kinda want to focus on that.   (I have a trigger now.   )

Maybe have a small section of softies in the DT fueled by a spotlight.   Or a GSP back wall.   Light availability to a region will limit the GSP spread.

Lots of random thoughts.

[Timfish]

Personally I don't see a big  difference between a FOWLR and a reef system.  If wild or maricultured live rock is used there's organisms that want the same conditions as corals.  Various coraline algae for example.  There's also corals that do well in lower light so the same selection process would  still applies, decide on lights then get animals that will do well with those lights.   It may not happen on the same time frame as brighter lit systems but there's still the same battle with nuisance algae.  Obviously there can be a big cost savings, both with up front equipment costs and long term costs.   

 

Just a note on DOCs;  There is a big difference in microbiomes depending on the source,  Algae DOC tends to promote heterotrophic microbial processes which are ineffecient and increae demand on on oxygen.  DOC from corals and coraline algae promote autotrophic microbial processes that are more effecient and can conserve or increase oxygen.  This may be a minor issue but it is worth considering IMO.

[+Grog]

Finally got off my butt yesterday and resealed.    Finished cleaning the joints, wiped down with acetone, taped, and siliconed.    Pulled tape off after.

This stuff STINKS, as in smells horrible.    Entire garage was polluted.   Left it overnight.

I goofed one corner joint.   Looks functionally sound but I tried to smooth it when it had already become tacky.    Looks bad but it is not noticeable from outside.   Just way too much silicone.

I'll build the stand this weekend or early next week, then leak test.

In other news, the Sicce pump I wanted was part of Amazon's one day sale yesterday.   They marked it down from $199 to $159.      I also had been looking for a mini-rake for my sand bed, it was $3 off too.  SCORE!

And that little black pad is the best thing ever for your knees.   Great for this job and if you are ever laying flooring.  Gorilla Grip is the brand and I prefer to use this over strap on knee pads.

[+Grog]

Thinking more about sump design and heading towards simple and effective.   I was bored and felt like doodling in Visio.  Gonna likely use one of these totes as a sump.

 

The tank has right and left rear side drains and returns.   So, I'm thinking one sump plumbed like this.  Have two drains and two returns, as a backup in case something clogs or fails.   One pump is larger, and it will have the longer run of pipe.  I don't think this distance or head height will matter much but it seems like it would be better to not further Nerf the smaller pump with a longer run.   This is sort of to scale.   This will leave space on the right for electrical stuff and gear storage.

Simplifying the overall sump layout too.  See below.  Simple overflow on the drain side, small weir on the return side to keep any critters out.   Plan to keep this cryptic for sponges, some worms, and a chocolate chip star.  No macro, and I won't need to have a light.    I'll run the ATO in there and an air stone.

I won't start this until after my leak check.   I had some critters coming in and USPS delayed the deliver till Saturday.   So.......    I will likely stay home this weekend and work on the stand.    Once the stand is done, and leak check passed, I can add some dimensions to the ideas above and start roughing in plumbing and the sump.

 

[Timfish]

Heavy duty totes work well but for those reading this I've seen the light duty totes stretch and bow alarming amounts and would advise against using them.

A light duty tote would work cut down and set inside for a sand bed or rubble rock bed.   Potentially, for automated water changes more of the sump volume could be used so thw return pumps would suck air and the sand or rubble would always stay submerged.

[+Grog]

Some real progress today.   Assembled the frame for the stand.   It still needs crossmembers, skinning, and a sub-deck for the sump.   I may add a tabletop to the stand as well.  Still debating that in my mind.   Not sure it is necessary as all the tank will really be resting on the edges due to the tank rim.  But this is good enough for leak check. 

Decided I'm NOT doing magnets on the side for the access panels.  I'm going to install a runner on the base and attach the panels with twisting pieces of wood, kind of like boat hatches.   Will be easier, cheaper, and quicker.  Also, decided to go with center braces.   Kept it simple with 2x4 construction and added center braces.    This will make it easier to have two front access panels and prevent the center of the span from sagging.

Not going to do anything else to the stand for now though.  Leak check is next.  If it passes, then I'll circle back to making the stand complete, not just functional.

[Timfish]

Looks good, I'd add a cross piece in the middle top to keep the sides from bowing out.

[+Grog]

The plan is three cross pieces on top and bottom for sure.

[+Grog]

Leak check in progress.   Buckets under the bulkheads.  Small leak there but that is around threads on temporary plugs in the bulkheads, not glass issues.   Looking good so far.  Gonna leave it till like Wednesday then drain.  🫰

I'm a lot more optimistic than I was this morning.

[+Grog]

Today was a rough one.  The only good thing about today is that I'm declaring the leak test successful.

72 hours later and no leaks except for at the bulkhead plugs.   Passed! *puts an official stamp on it*

I drained the tank and will work on making the stand pretty over the next week or so.   Other projects and the day job are competing for my time.   Blah!     

Used the Sicce return pump to drain the tank.   That thing moves some serious water.   

[+Grog]

I've been all over the place about lighting for this tank.    Do I want to do LED, or T5, or halides, or ....       I pulled the trigger and I'm going at least partially old school.   Hear me out.

I love LED they have their place, but I don't think they do everything.      T5 have good diffusion and don't have the shadows that some LED can create.   No disco ball with T5.  I think the LED can provide the punch for this build, and the T5 can provide the color pop and broadcast coverage.   I like halides but they were not right for this application.  

So, I'm going to use some T5 and some LED.    The T5 fixtures are locked in but I'm still toying with which LED I will use.    I got two of the Odyssea 4 bulb fixtures adding about 320 watts of T5 for the tank.    The picture below is with the sub-optimal Odyssea bulbs that ship with the fixtures.  I have some ATI bulbs coming in.   No LED in this picture.  (This is 4 36" bulbs on each side so 8 36" bulbs total.)   End game, I'll probably run 4-6 true actinic, and 2-4 mix of purple plus and coral plus.   Likely 4 actinic, 2 purple, 2 coral plus.    FWIW:  The Odyssea bulbs aren't as bad as I recall.   These look OK.  Not sure what they changed.   Good to keep as spares.

For LED, I'm debating on using the existing SB Reef fixtures I have or using some bar lights.   Not sure.    (Need to see how the tests Tim and I run end up.) 

As far as the new Odyssea fixtures, I'm impressed with the Odyssea improvements.    They were VERY well packaged.  Bubble wrap, inner boxes, film over the acrylic lenses, etc.    The fit of these is way better than their older products.  No rattling.  No wobbling.  No vibration.   They've improved.   The reflectors work well.  I noticed that when I was unboxing, and they beamed my dining room floods into my eyeballs.     

Not the most exciting update but it is forward motion.     Tomorrow I'm devoting the day to finishing the stand, or getting it mostly finished.

[Timfish]

Just FYI, "old school" is T12s and 5000K MH.  😄

[+Grog]

haha I actually saw a power compact fixture for sale with a full aquarium set up the other day.

Did some digging and you can actually still buy bulbs for them.

Haven't seen anyone using those in a long while.