42 Gallon Reef Tank

[Tjungmann06]

Hey Guys, 

I have been out of the hobby for about 7 years now. So I know the technology has advanced quite a bit. What place better than arc to get back into it. I would love some opinions on lights, sumps, tanks, etc.

 

I would like a tank under 50 gallons. I would like to eventually house some small Lps colonies and a few sps. If you guys could build a tank, what would you buy if money wasn’t a concern? 

I appreciate any help I can get!

[Timfish]

    Welcome back!  We're looking forward to seeing your system come together and develop in your build thread!

 

Since people don't seem to notice if a tank is a simple rectangle or a fancier hexagon or curved shape when it's full of corals and fish, I'd go with just a basic tank and focus on the livestock.  For a smaller tank like you have there a plenty of inexpensive options available on line.  But since you did mention if money wasn't an issue I'd go with a curved tank from Aqua.Vim (I'd avoid acrylic as it's much harder to keep clean of algae than glass).  For high end lights I'd stick with Kessil or some other LED light that uses glass lenses, I've seen the polycarbonate lenses even in the "high end" fixtures turn brown in  just a few years and will avoid them if I can (some inexpensive LED fixtures use reflectors instead of lense which won't have the issue with browning). 

 

Our understanding of the biological processes has changed tremendously over the years and a lot of what I see promulgated on various forums unfortunately represents the dogma that's built up over the decades.  One example being the old idea PO4 needed to be kept extremely low (.001 mg/l).  In reality reefs are exposed to much higher levels as most of the ocean sits around .3 mg/l and the average reef sits around ~.1 mg/l.  Research done with corals kept in aquaria has shown PO4 levels below .03 mg/l can cause phosphorus deficiencies in corals causing bleaching and even death.  FOllowint the research showing how critical microbiomes for our physical and mental health and how critical they are for sustainable farming there have been huge advances on our understanding of their roles in coral health.  So here's some links to a couple decades of research if you want to feel overwhelmed.   (FYI, researchers for the most part reffer to Dissolved Organic Carbon as DOC, aquairst have renamed it "carbon dosing" but it's the same thing.)

 

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems.  While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU

Changing Seas -  Mysterious Microbes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA

Microbial view of Coral Decline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAD26LGERj8

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4

BActeria and Sponges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
https://youtu.be/dGIPveFJ_0Q

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
https://youtu.be/oadKezUYkJE

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxVSmLhxUg

Richard Ross  What's up with phosphate"
https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

 

 

 

 

[Tjungmann06]

After consulting with my wife for aesthetics, she has ALLOWED me to choose the “Reefer XL 200 G2+ System (42 Gal). I know I would probably eventually need a dosing system, but other than that, do you guys think this system is setup well enough for lps and sps? (Sump, skimmer,etc)

@Timfish If I eventually want to house some Sps in this tank. Which lights would you suggest? The dimensions are 24"L x 21"H x 22.6"W. I’ve been looking for a good guide but I haven’t been able to find much.

 

Any help is appreciated! 
 

 

 

 

[Tjungmann06]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:28 AM, Timfish said:

    Welcome back!  We're looking forward to seeing your system come together and develop in your build thread!

 

Since people don't seem to notice if a tank is a simple rectangle or a fancier hexagon or curved shape when it's full of corals and fish, I'd go with just a basic tank and focus on the livestock.  For a smaller tank like you have there a plenty of inexpensive options available on line.  But since you did mention if money wasn't an issue I'd go with a curved tank from Aqua.Vim (I'd avoid acrylic as it's much harder to keep clean of algae than glass).  For high end lights I'd stick with Kessil or some other LED light that uses glass lenses, I've seen the polycarbonate lenses even in the "high end" fixtures turn brown in  just a few years and will avoid them if I can (some inexpensive LED fixtures use reflectors instead of lense which won't have the issue with browning). 

 

Our understanding of the biological processes has changed tremendously over the years and a lot of what I see promulgated on various forums unfortunately represents the dogma that's built up over the decades.  One example being the old idea PO4 needed to be kept extremely low (.001 mg/l).  In reality reefs are exposed to much higher levels as most of the ocean sits around .3 mg/l and the average reef sits around ~.1 mg/l.  Research done with corals kept in aquaria has shown PO4 levels below .03 mg/l can cause phosphorus deficiencies in corals causing bleaching and even death.  FOllowint the research showing how critical microbiomes for our physical and mental health and how critical they are for sustainable farming there have been huge advances on our understanding of their roles in coral health.  So here's some links to a couple decades of research if you want to feel overwhelmed.   (FYI, researchers for the most part reffer to Dissolved Organic Carbon as DOC, aquairst have renamed it "carbon dosing" but it's the same thing.)

 

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems.  While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU

Changing Seas -  Mysterious Microbes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA

Microbial view of Coral Decline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAD26LGERj8

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4

BActeria and Sponges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
https://youtu.be/dGIPveFJ_0Q

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
https://youtu.be/oadKezUYkJE

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxVSmLhxUg

Richard Ross  What's up with phosphate"
https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the quick response!! I need to dig into those links soon! 

[ckyuv]

I recently(about 3 months ago) got the reefer xl 300 g2 and have been happy with it. I think maintaining sps/lps is more relevant to your lighting/flow/stock than it is the glass around it. I’m going to be bias on lighting suggestions as I have also been out of the hobby for quite some time so have no good comments there. Just want to say I’ve been happy with the style/quality of the Red Sea so far. 
 

If money isn’t a concern I think deciding if you want a controller and if so which one you want up front helps. I decided not to do one so I could go all Red Sea and just use a single app… then didn’t get the Red Sea lights or pumps so now nothing integrates. Might be worth a thought as your googlin lol 

[Timfish]

To be honest I really hate the terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softies" as they have no relavance for the husbandry requirements of corals and are very misleading causing many faulty assumptions on the part of aquarists.  Take Purple Stylo, Stylopora  pistellata, for example; it's one of the hardiest corals I've come across and I've seen it survive conditions that kill mushrooms, Sinularia and Sarcophyton octocorals and Frogspawn, chalice and plate corals. 

 

I'll get off my soapbox now.  Kessils would be my first choice for a tank that size but there are inexpensive options of similar design.  POPbloom is a chap brand that uses reflectors instead of lenses so there's no issue of lenses browning but the controller for programing it is obtuse to say the best so when I've used them I've used a sepperate timer.  I use my own custom built fixtures a lot so I haven't kept up with all the marketing hype but there are fairly flat fixtures that will give good coverage.  I'd look for a fixture that will give you around 150 PAR on the bottom of the sand when it's mounted at the hieght you want.  You may not have it set that high but it'll ba able to provide the light some corals will need to maintain thier colors.

[+Grog]

I second Tim's comment on the Kessils.   I have an AP9X over my 40 and love it.  Running at 60% output and chalice and birdsnest are doing great.    Kessil app is easy to use.   If power goes out they start back up and remember where they were on the cycle.

I got the Kessil hard mounting arm to go with.    Very glad I did it.  Worth the money.     Love the look, of both the fixture and the light output.   The shimmer is awesome.

I have cheaper LEDs on other tanks but the AP9X covers a 40 breeder perfectly.   Covering a larger tank with them could get spendy......

Other small thing that I notice after using it, the mounting arm makes it so easy to maintain the tank.   No lifting of a hood, etc, to get in the tank and mess around.   Very convenient and that is definitely a factor.   Mine is mounted 18" over the water.   Another small thing, the Kessil arm has a inches marked on it so you can use it to set height.   Little items like that add up.

[Tjungmann06]

7 hours ago, Timfish said:

To be honest I really hate the terms "SPS", "LPS" and "Softies" as they have no relavance for the husbandry requirements of corals and are very misleading causing many faulty assumptions on the part of aquarists.  Take Purple Stylo, Stylopora  pistellata, for example; it's one of the hardiest corals I've come across and I've seen it survive conditions that kill mushrooms, Sinularia and Sarcophyton octocorals and Frogspawn, chalice and plate corals. 

 

I'll get off my soapbox now.  Kessils would be my first choice for a tank that size but there are inexpensive options of similar design.  POPbloom is a chap brand that uses reflectors instead of lenses so there's no issue of lenses browning but the controller for programing it is obtuse to say the best so when I've used them I've used a sepperate timer.  I use my own custom built fixtures a lot so I haven't kept up with all the marketing hype but there are fairly flat fixtures that will give good coverage.  I'd look for a fixture that will give you around 150 PAR on the bottom of the sand when it's mounted at the hieght you want.  You may not have it set that high but it'll ba able to provide the light some corals will need to maintain thier colors.

I guess those terms are too general in their meaning. I’ll be better!! You have to remember I have been out of the hobby for 10 years! 
 

I would like to eventually have some more difficult acros is what I was trying to say. Thank you again for the reply.

[Tjungmann06]

3 hours ago, Grog said:

I second Tim's comment on the Kessils.   I have an AP9X over my 40 and love it.  Running at 60% output and chalice and birdsnest are doing great.    Kessil app is easy to use.   If power goes out they start back up and remember where they were on the cycle.

I got the Kessil hard mounting arm to go with.    Very glad I did it.  Worth the money.     Love the look, of both the fixture and the light output.   The shimmer is awesome.

I have cheaper LEDs on other tanks but the AP9X covers a 40 breeder perfectly.   Covering a larger tank with them could get spendy......

Other small thing that I notice after using it, the mounting arm makes it so easy to maintain the tank.   No lifting of a hood, etc, to get in the tank and mess around.   Very convenient and that is definitely a factor.   Mine is mounted 18" over the water.   Another small thing, the Kessil arm has a inches marked on it so you can use it to set height.   Little items like that add up.

If the ap9x covers your 40 breeder, I would think it should have sufficient coverage for my 42 cube. 
 

Do you guys have any recommendations on controllers? 
 

 

[ckyuv]

Im using the ap9x as well with the hard mounting arm on my xl 300 and have no issues with coverage. Love the app, love the shimmer, I’m in the club haha. 

[Timfish]

15 hours ago, Tjungmann06 said:

. . . I would like to eventually have some more difficult acros is what I was trying to say. Thank you again for the reply.

Your welcome! 

 

If you're trying for designer corals keep in mind the prices reflect how hard it is to grow them and/or keep their colors.   It's probably best to decide which corals you want first then find out what the environmental conditions are they are grwon under to develop those colors (and include tankmates) then match those conditions as closely as possible.  When setting up your system start with coral species that are either sibling species or "easy" varieties of the same species you want to keep.  Once they are doing wellyou can add the species you want and when they are doing well thenrehome the starter specimens as room is needed for the preffered ones.

[Tjungmann06]

I have since decided to go with the reefer xl gt 300 65 gallon with ap9x lights. I wanted more room to aquascape. 

 

In terms of cleanup crew. I plan to stock with these:

 

15 blue leg hermits

2 cleaner shrimp

10 cerith

10 astrea

10 nassarius

 

@Timfish@ckyuv@Grog

 

Do you guys have any other suggestions for the cleanup crew? Too much? Not enough?

[+Grog]

You will find folks some differences of opinions on the snails. I have a love hate relationship with most of them, but I really think the conch snails do great job.   May want one or two in the tank. 

I also keep peppermint shrimp and donkey dung in my tanks but I'm kind of an invert fan. 

 

[Timfish]

I'd skip the astrea snails.  Brittle stars are great for grabing food that's fallen in tight spots other scavengers can't get to.  Larger hermits like thin stripe hermits from hte coast or the electric blue hermit (Calcinus spp.) are much better algae eaters.  You definitely want to use an urchin or two.  They are essential herbivores on reefs (the decline of Caribbean reefs can be directly tied to the dieoff of diadem urchins in '83) and have been essential for reef restorations.   Urchins will scour rocks of algae doing a much better job of preventing algae form growing back than other herbivores.  My favorites are the pink short spine from the Caribbean, tuxedo and royal.  Diadem spp urchins are excellent herbivores but are a hazard because of their sharp spines.  DOn't get any of the pencil urchins, they're not too particular about what the munch on.

[Tjungmann06]

I really appreciate all of you guys helping me out! 
 

Im getting closer to getting this tank going. Im in the process of figuring out what I need for flow. Everything I have read is saying I need a wave maker. I’ve never had one before. Would the echotech mp40 be enough flow for the entire tank? 
 

Would I need multiple wave makers? Or a wave maker and a power head? I have only ever used power heads so I’m clueless on the wave makers. I will have a sand bed if that makes a difference.

 

@Timfish @Grog @ckyuv 

[Timfish]

 

Just FYI, there's a lot of dogma that has built up in the reef hobby over the decades.  The essential equipment needed to keep corals iwhat is needed to provide  adequate lighting and water flow for the species in question.  This can be accomplished with surprisingly inexpensive equipment.  Dick Perrin, who near as I can determine was the first coral farmer in the US starting back in the 90s, raised hundreds of thousands of frags using 6500K MH and airlifts (as in no water pumps).  This system here used tap water and just a single mag 9 pump and cheap black box LEDs of amazon with just an unlit sump, no skimmer, reactors or dosers.   

 

So the question seems to me to be will a MP40 give you the movement you want to see and that's something you'll have to answer.  Keep in mind you can always add another if you like.  Cost is certainly a consideration but having spares or redundant pumps is always a good idea as sooner or later pumps will fail.  

 

 

[ckyuv]

That’s the same tank I have, and a single mp40 on one side did just fine. The kids kept trying to take it off so I moved it to the back where they can’t get to it, and if you have it hidden I think it needs a little more just to sierras the flow out a little more evenly. If having it on the side works for you then it’s wayyyyy more than enough flow. I couldn’t go over like 50% without turning the tank into mayhem.