AlexMorsePremium Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Here's my current stock in a Red Sea Reefer 450 (92 G display, 5' long) Pair of percula clowns Bicolor blenny 4 blue green chromis Royal gramma Six line wrasse Foxface Additionally some snails (turbo, conch) Scarlet hermits Skunk cleaner shrimp I tried to add a flame angel, but he didn't make it. Couldn't get him to eat, spent most time hiding. I didn't see anyone harassing him. Might try again... but trying to think this through and would love some advice/experiences from you all. Currently my wrasse is being an ***, saw him harassing my gramma (which has been in the tank since the start.) I've just added some more rock to give more hiding places to hopefully keep both happy. Wrasse has been somewhat aggressive towards the blenny, but the blenny has none of it and chases him back off. The foxface hasn't been aggressive, but I've seen him flash his spines after I add some nori. I'd like an active swimmer, and probably something closer to foxface size to balance out the tank. Things I'm considering: Young hippo tang (would need a bigger aquarium in a few years) Yellow eyed kole (Is this different enough body/shape from the foxface to prevent aggression?) Flame Angel (so pretty... need one less shy than last, or better way to acclimate him to the community, may nip polyps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Six-Line Wrasse is known to be aggressive. The Bi-color Blenny is also known to be aggressive. I wouldn't keep either of them with the chromis or the Royal Gramma. They're both nice fish to keep in a semi-aggressive setting with damsels, Halichoeres wrasses or angelfish, but they normally terrorize peaceful fish. It's like being in a relationship; if there are problems in the beginning then it doesn't get any better with time. You'll likely have to choose the wrasse or the gramma. I would stay away from the Flame Angel. They're brightly colored, but they aren't active open-water swimmers. They're more likely to meander through the live rock, partly seen and partly doing angelfish stuff. They also vary greatly in temperament. Some will do well in a community setting and others will be aggressive. Likewise, some leave corals alone and others nip. You can roll the dice, but be prepared to make adjustments as necessary. I would also avoid the Regal Tang. They grow fast, like to swim a lot and they create a lot of mess. I bought mine at 1" expecting it to take a while to grow, but less than a year later it's already 4"! It eats more than tangs twice it's size and never stops swimming. They grow to about 11", even in captivity, and they're known to relocate corals and rocks as adults. It's probably my favorite fish, but they don't tell you this stuff in books. I just want you to be prepared. A 90g is a good size tank to have a few fish. I like to shoot for about 0.5" of adult fish per gallon of display. I believe what you have is a Foxface Lo, which has a maximum size of about 9". Foxface Rabbitfish won't mess with anything except other rabbitfish. They might flex their spines, but it's more of a reaction to stimulus than attitude. I would avoid the more aggressive tangs (Power Blue, Achilles, Clown, etc.), but everything else will leave the fox alone. The chromis, gramma, and clowns get to about 3" each for a total of 30" of adult fish, not including the six line or bicolor. I would think about adding 1-2 tangs. The Yellow Tang, Yellow Eye Kole, Blue eye Bristletooth, Lavender, and Chocolate Tangs are all good choices. If you decide to sell the wrasse, then you could also add a couple of peaceful fish to go with your existing fish. Firefish or other dartfish would go well in that setting. You could also add another gramma, flasher wrasse, fairy wrasse, Yellow Coris Wrasse or cardinal fish. All of those can be kept in groups peacefully. I would avoid dottybacks, damsels, and other basslets unless you decide to keep the six line and sell the peaceful fish. That will give you a total of about 45-50" of adult fish or 0.5" - 0.6" per gallon. This rule isn't written in stone or anything, it's just a guideline that I have found success using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexMorsePremium Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 Good info. Everywhere I'd read previously put the six line as occasionally aggressive. I've had him about a month and it's just recently I see him acting up, guess he just got comfortable. Will keep an eye out for him and the chromis, no problems so far. If the additional rock hasn't given enough distinct territories I'll isolate him and look at alternatives. I love that he's super active, acts like a tour guide for the tank. If it comes to it might replace with a cardinal. Everything I've found on the blenny says he'll be aggressive to gobys and other things similarly shaped in his territory. He's my favourite right now. That's the rule I was shooting for as far as bioload actually. Once I get there I'd let it be for quite a while and evaluate if my export game was up to anymore... but I like what's going right now just want to round out with some variety. I will have a look at the blue eye, lavender, and chocolate! For some reason I don't want a yellow tang... pretty but I see them everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Six Line Wrasses used to be insanely popular, but a lot of people have been turned off of them because of the aggression. I guess it wasn't very noticeable when everyone was stacking rock to the top of the tank, but now open rock work lets us see more fish behavior. IMO a lot of aggression has to do with space limitations and food competition. I quarantined four damsels in a 14g and they fought all of the time. Looking back, it really wasn't a good idea! I haven't seen any aggression from those same fish after introducing them to the display. The only thing that has changed is space available. I had a similar experience with Green Chromis. I started with 11 and fed once a day. The group picked off two within the first month. I increased my feedings to 3x per day and kept the remaining group of 9 for two years before breaking down the tank. It could be coincidence, but it seemed to correlate. I know what you mean about the YT because I thought the same thing and avoided them for years. You already have a yellow fish so it'll be good to add something different. Lavender Tangs aren't available all year, but they're in season right now. Blue Eye Bristletooth and Yellow Eye Kole Tangs are available all of the time, but you might not see them in the fish store. Ask the store of your choice to order you one. It won't cost any extra and you'll save time checking the store until you see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexMorsePremium Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 Leaning towards the Kole, and know where I can pick one up. My blue/green chromis started out as 6, whittled themselves to 4 within a week and have now stabilized. I knew that was possible going in and thought I'd roll the dice. The 4 left sparred a little bit in the beginning (kissing fights) but are now chums. Hope I can even catch my wrasse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Do you like cardinal fish? My wife really likes them and they add different color/patterns and communal character. They're easy to care for and known to breed in the home aquarium. Fire fish and flame hawkfish have also been fun additions to watch in my tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I've had this theory on Green Chromis. I think that you will get a different result with every group introduced into the same tank. Let's say you have a 100g tank and buy five chromis. The tank is large enough to avoid space issues, but they're impossible to sex accurately. I think they naturally want to form a harem like anthias. If it turns out you have 2 males and 3 females, then the dominate male will kill the other male, leaving you with a group of 4. Then the healthy ones form a pecking order and one or more dies while trying to determine the hierarchy. If you get more males or more evenly matched fish then you may get more deaths. I'm not about to buy a bunch of chromis to test the theory, but I can't think of any other reasons a fish labeled "peaceful" by so many resources would kill each other off like they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexMorsePremium Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 They definitely formed a pecking order. I assumed the two that were lost were just the runts/weakest but maybe they were just "extra" males. I haven't kept cardinals yet, they look cool. Will have to research them a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Kole would be my pick. There's about 20 different varieties, but the yellow eye purple ones are the best colored, even better than chevrons once they mature IMO. Tomini would be my second pick in the same family. Dwarf angels will most likely eventually start nipping or eating coral. You can go a long time, even years, with a reef safe one, but they almost always eventually start nipping. A Genicanthus angel would be an option like a bellus, spotbreast, or swallow tail. Completely reef safe but they will not eat algae at all, needs entirely meaty foods like an anthias. Be careful with lamarcks, watanabei, or other deep water ones though. People have success with them but they have to be collected perfectly for long term survival. On the chromis topic, I've almost never seen them work in groups long term, they almost universally whittle themselves down to a single remaining chromis... I've actually had much better luck with groups of springers damsels than chromis. In either case they have to be well fed to have any chance of long term success with groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Kole would be my pick. There's about 20 different varieties, but the yellow eye purple ones are the best colored, even better than chevrons once they mature IMO. Tomini would be my second pick in the same family. Dwarf angels will most likely eventually start nipping or eating coral. You can go a long time, even years, with a reef safe one, but they almost always eventually start nipping. A Genicanthus angel would be an option like a bellus, ppotbreast, or swallow tail. Completely reef safe but they will not eat algae at all, needs entirely meaty foods like an anthias. Be careful with lamarcks, watanabei, or other deep water ones though. People have success with them but they have to be collected perfectly for long term survival. On the chromis topic, I've almost never seen them work in groups long term, they almost universally whittle themselves down to a single remaining chromis... I've actually had much better luck with groups of springers damsels than chromis. In either case they have to be well fed to have any chance of long term success with groups. Have you kept a group of Talbot's (Chrysiptera talboti), Pink Smith (Pomacentrus smithi) or Oscellate (Pomacentrus vaiuli) Damselfish? I'm thinking of adding one but my research isn't coming up with anything definitive. I have a current group of five Allen's Damsels and I'd like to add another group. One note on the Genicanthus angelfish. If you buy a male and don't stock 3-5 females, then the male will nearly always change back into a female. The changing process from male back to female takes about a year. On the plus side the females are half the price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Kole would be my pick. There's about 20 different varieties, but the yellow eye purple ones are the best colored, even better than chevrons once they mature IMO. Tomini would be my second pick in the same family. Dwarf angels will most likely eventually start nipping or eating coral. You can go a long time, even years, with a reef safe one, but they almost always eventually start nipping. A Genicanthus angel would be an option like a bellus, ppotbreast, or swallow tail. Completely reef safe but they will not eat algae at all, needs entirely meaty foods like an anthias. Be careful with lamarcks, watanabei, or other deep water ones though. People have success with them but they have to be collected perfectly for long term survival. On the chromis topic, I've almost never seen them work in groups long term, they almost universally whittle themselves down to a single remaining chromis... I've actually had much better luck with groups of springers damsels than chromis. In either case they have to be well fed to have any chance of long term success with groups. Have you kept a group of Talbot's (Chrysiptera talboti), Pink Smith (Pomacentrus smithi) or Oscellate (Pomacentrus vaiuli) Damselfish? I'm thinking of adding one but my research isn't coming up with anything definitive. I have a current group of five Allen's Damsels and I'd like to add another group. I've kept Springers and Talbots together without issue, but none of the others. Might have to try a Oscellate if I can find one myself. What an amazing fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Oh man, it's too bad we didn't have this conversation on Saturday. I just put an order in at LiveAquaria and it shipped today. You could have jumped on my order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexMorsePremium Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 The wrasse did end up doing in the basslet Wrasse is still in tank, and I'm monitoring behavior. Hasn't harassed anything else, if it starts I'll put a trap in for him. Yellow Eyed Kole which is grazing and taking food at feedings, very active. Tank is officially "full" of fish. From here on out it'll be corals and maybe some additional variety in clean up crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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