Kaplanm Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I lost my first Royal Gramma about a week ago, never found the body. I figured it may've just been the stress of the move (My current QT setup is only good for a couple hours, just enough to do a visual inspection. I know that's poor form.) Today I lost my second Royal Gramma. I found the body and there were no visible signs of disease. (I don't really know how to perform a proper necropsy) It however had been fairly scavenged by the time I got to it. The 50k dollar question is who am I hunting? From what I can tell some of the likely candidates are hitchiking crabs and mantis shrimp. A small chance it's a bristle worm. Is there anything else I should be looking for? Is there any easy way to hunt down this critter before it strikes again? (My purple firefish has burrowed in a nearby region) Any advice is appreciated. Now both Grammas wound up nesting in about the same place. I know there are some reasonably sized bristle worms within the rocks over there. I pulled one about 4" or 5" out of the corpse and doused it in bleach. My other fish are all currently fine. Water has tested out fine. Here's the full lowdown on tank stock:1x ORA Neon Goby 1x ORA Banggai Cardinal 1x Purple Fire Fish 25x Astrea Snails 3x Margarita Snails 17x Cerinth 5x Scarlet Hermits 2x Emerald Crabs 1x TIger Conch Various SPS, Mushroom, and Octocorals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Kaplan, I have been observing your build progress and here's some things I've noted that may be a contributor to the disappearance of your fish, the death of your brittle stars, and the excess GHA you seem to be battling. Just my opinion but hopefully the observations may help with your build progress. It seems like you have all the necessary equipment and know how to have a successful reef tank. The planning of the tank maintenance and equipment is well thought out as well. I think the one thing that is giving you all your issues is timeframe. Your tank build started less than a month ago and over that time you have added the following: ------------------------- 20x Astrea snails 5x Nassarius snails 2x Emerald crabs 2x Serpent Stars (look like they may be Ophioderma rubicundum) 1x Peppermint Shrimp 1x Coral Banded Shrimp 1-3x Xenia 1x Birdsnest 3x Blue Mushrooms Blue pocillipora Green/blue montipora Pink bird's nest Green Mushroom Blue Mushroom Red Mushroom Green fuzzy mushroom Pom Pom Xenia Teal Brain Picked up a few more inverts Tiger Conch 5x Scarlet hermits 10x Cerith snails 3x Margarita 7x Astrea 3x Banded trochus 1x Tuxedo Urchin Also picked up some fish finally! 1x Neon Goby 1x Banggai Cardinal 1x Purple Firefish 1x Royal Gramma I've got a Yellow Diamond goby on the way. Should be able to pick him up either this weekend or sometime next week. I'm also planning on a 6 line wrasse. I'd also like to replace my stars. -------------------------- You've also toyed with the idea of adding clams, a flame angel, an orchid dottyback, a school of chromis, and possibly a wrasse. The only reason I listed everything is just to see the total accumulation of your bioload that has been added in the last 3 weeks since your tank was started. I do not doubt that your setup and tank size can handle that bioload... what I do doubt is its ability to adjust that quickly to a major increase in bioload within the short timeframe that has passed so far. I know you have been testing your water and also tested to confirm the original cycle was complete but maybe something that you may have missed is with each addition to your bioload, your tank has to adjust. Incremental additions to your system allows it to adjust with the incrementally increased biological activity as well to compensate for the waste products of your additions. When you don't slowly ramp up your bioload but instead increase it dramatically over a short period, you will overload your biological processes and the result will be unprocessed waste products in the form of ammonia and nitrite that don't get converted in a timely manner to a less toxic form, nitrate. I believe your loss of the brittle stars and your fish up to this point might be attributed to that reason alone. Some fish just don't handle spikes of ammonia/nitrite as well as others... even more so if they are dropped in a new environment with possible hostile tankmates or other equally stressed fish. This would also explain your massive algal growth you mentioned. You have a backlog of probably ammonia/nitrite and a large increase in nitrates from the waste products of your additions, coupled with increased feedings for the new additions to the tank which add even more nitrates and also phosphates, and you have the perfect nutrient soup for algae to grow. The cleanup crew you have added up to this point is almost 2-3x what I have in my 215-gallon tank if that gives you any comparative level of cleanup crew... though for comparison purposes, I do run light on my cleanup crew because I have overzealous and active tangs that pick away at the rocks all day long. Also, a point of observation over the years in my various tank transfers but I believe the bioload impact of adding corals is severely underestimated. They are living, breathing (colonial/singular) animals as well and do make an impact on bioload as well, though obviously less than fishes, yet still impactful. I know you mentioned the water parameters are good currently and when your brittle stars died, you mentioned the issue has been handled, but you didn't elaborate as to what the levels were, what test kits you may be using, or how you handled it. Perhaps more detail into your actual parameters and what you did to mitigate the nutrient issues would help everyone try to diagnose your issues with lost livestock and increased algal growth. Bear in mind that nutrients, specifically nitrates and phosphates, will read zero in your tank if you have nuisance algae growth as they will uptake it from the water giving you a false low reading. I hope the assessment is helpful and my apologies if I intruded too much. I can guarantee it was not my intention, I just aim to assess and help diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 No that's absolutely the kind of in depth analysis I was hoping some people could provide. As for test kits, for the NH4, NO3, NO4, pH, and Alk I'm using the Red Sea "Marine Care Test Kit". For Mg, PO4, and Ca I've got the Salifert kits. I'm using a refractometer for Salinity. Since the Serpent Stars died, I did a test found both toxic levels of ammonia and nitrite. I let the tank rest for a bit until those levels returned to 0, although I still had a nitrate reading of 5ppm. I performed a 20% water change at this point. At that point all growth of the turf algae had ceased, I manually removed most of what was there, the rest is slowly being taken care of by the Cerinths. I've been vigilant in making sure no snails etc. have died and the one or 2 that haven't made it have been immediately removed. As for cleanup crew I was following that old, and lousy reccomendation of 1 snail / hermit per gallon. They're all chomping away happily at this point, but you're right I can see a time shortly where I will have to probably start pulling them. Today is tank maintence and I'll be running a full water panel, plus I'll add in a PO4 as well. I'll post results of all of that later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Perfect, sounds like you are doing all the right things to help your tank adjust with your new additions. When you mean you're adding PO4, do you mean you're adding GFO or some type of PO4 removal media? I like both the Red Sea and Salifert test kits. They are consistently good in most people's review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'll add the test in, if I'm having an issue I'll add GFO. I'll have to jury rig a reactor, I've got the GFO on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Oh I see, you meant add "testing" PO4 to the panel of tests... not meaning adding phosphate to the tank. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonTheGuy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I think the grammars are sensitive to water chemistry since I see nothing that kill them in the life list I suspect your chemistry is bad. Rising nitrates nitrites? Is this a new virgin setup as.of.30.days ago? If so I really suspect.chemistry and.a.bio overload. Have the water.tested.at.an aquarium shop ... river city aquatic will.do it.for.free. what you do when too high here ask them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Water Params As of Today:Salinity: 1.023 pH: 8.3 NH4: 0ppm NO3: 0ppm NO4: 8ppm Alk: 7dKH PO4: .5ppm I can already see a Nitrate and a pH problem has cropped up. A week ago my pH was no higher than 8.2 max. Isn't going any higher than that bad news? I've been using the Red Sea Coral Pro as my salt mix. Correct me if I'm wrong but the next steps I should take are perform probably a 30% water change with a mix of something in the 1.025 range and a pH of around 8.0? I can possibly add a *very* small refugium and run some chaeto, but the size we're talking is a drop in the bucket. (Wouldn't hurt for the pods though) Are there any other steps I should be taking? Is it time to bust out some NO4 removing resin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Your nitrates are fine. I run all the way up to 15ppm before I start to get concerned. Your PH is fine. I would leave it alone until it gets to 8.5-8.6 What is your p04 at, that is a very Important measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Your nitrates are fine. I run all the way up to 15ppm before I start to get concerned. Your PH is fine. I would leave it alone until it gets to 8.5-8.6 What is your p04 at, that is a very Important measurement. I just ran a PO4, and according to the Salifert kit it came back at 0.5ppm. That's too high isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes. You need to be less than 0.10. I shoot for 0.03 I didn't like the color change on the salifert personally I found it very hard to read. So I bought a hanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 At some point in the future I'm going completely digital. Alas, that's an expensive conversion, especially for my current tank.Luckily I'm buying a house so I can get my 220! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would do a 20% water change now and another 20% Wednesday. Make sure to match your salinity, alk, ca and mg to as close as possible. Your alk is a little low I would shoot the WC water for 8 DKH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplanm Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 OK, The Neon Goby also vanished yesterday. The Firefish and Cardinal are still OK, and looking perfectly healthy. Is there an easy way to tell if I've got a predatory shrimp or crab in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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