two questions

[aeroaustin]

I have two question for fellow reefer..

1) Which supplement for Magnesium, EVC or Salifret, which is more reliable and preferred? I has EVC B-ionic two part soultions (calicum and alk)

2) Garlic? Which is your preferred Kent Extreme or Seachem garlic guard?

What do you use supplement for your tank? or leave it natural?

[cmanning]

I have two question for fellow reefer..

1) Which supplement for Magnesium, EVC or Salifret, which is more reliable and preferred? I has EVC B-ionic two part soultions (calicum and alk)

2) Garlic? Which is your preferred Kent Extreme or Seachem garlic guard?

What do you use supplement for your tank? or leave it natural?

#1: Epsom Salt. 100% (pharmaceutical grade) at your local pharmacy.

#2: Got Vampires? - just kidding.. - never used it myself

As for suppliments : Just the Calcium Reactor.with ARM. plus 3 drops of iodine per 300 gallons about once every 2 weeks. (Lugols - in the sump).

Return water from sump goes through 2 GE Whole-House filters - one loaded with Kent Marine Reef

Activated Reef Carbon, the other loaded with Phosguard.

All we do is:

Weekly: change 30 gal of water (300 gal system). and add 1.5 Kg of Epsom Salts to make up for the Salt Manufacturer's Mg deficiency.

Once a month - change the Carbon and the Phosguard out of the return lines filters.

Twice a Month: 3 drops Lugols.. and clean the skimmer bucket (both skimmers output chambers)

We use a DSB in both the 125g sump. and the 215 display. Sump is lit all night via PC's.(off in the day when display is lit).

Macro grows in sump.

[GKarshens]

I use garlic. I have used a few types. I started off buying Garlic Extreme (not sure who makes it). Then I found Kyolic at the health food store. It is the same thing but twice as big for half the price. I just made a bunch of home made food the other day and didn't have any Kyolic left. So I minced up some fresh garlic and put it in the blender with the rest of the food. I use it since I know it is good for a humans immune system. I figure the fish like it and it may help them too.

[Headless_donkey]

1) ESV Mag and Bionic

2) Garlic extreme soon to be switching to Kyolic(thanks Gabriel!)

[jsr]

#1: Epsom Salt. 100% (pharmaceutical grade) at your local pharmacy.

I have been hearing that you could dose Epsom Salt for mag. Is this as safe as using Tech-M? Is there any special notes that you could share? Seems cheaper then buying Tech-M or another magnesium additive.

James

[+dapettit]

1)Kent Tech-M and Bionic

2) Kent Garlic extreme

Will be running carbon. Like the whole house filter idea cmanning, got pics?

[cmanning]

1)Kent Tech-M and Bionic

2) Kent Garlic extreme

Will be running carbon. Like the whole house filter idea cmanning, got pics?

If you get a chance, check out the members gallery pics. "House Filters".

-Cindy-

[aeroaustin]

I use garlic. I have used a few types. I started off buying Garlic Extreme (not sure who makes it). Then I found Kyolic at the health food store. It is the same thing but twice as big for half the price. I just made a bunch of home made food the other day and didn't have any Kyolic left. So I minced up some fresh garlic and put it in the blender with the rest of the food. I use it since I know it is good for a humans immune system. I figure the fish like it and it may help them too.

Where can be found in health food store? could be GNC or Vitamin store? I never heard this kyolic. I wonder if can use soak with food? I tends two or three drops on the cube of mysis shrimp or krill or brine for 30 minutes then feed to fishes.

[GKarshens]

You can get it at Whole Foods or Sun Harvest. Yes I used to put 3 drops in a 1/2 cup of tank water to soak the food. It is 100% Garlic oil so a few drops is all you need.

[cmanning]

#1: Epsom Salt. 100% (pharmaceutical grade) at your local pharmacy.

I have been hearing that you could dose Epsom Salt for mag. Is this as safe as using Tech-M? Is there any special notes that you could share? Seems cheaper then buying Tech-M or another magnesium additive.

James

Ok James - special note #1: Never add anything you don't test for. -Arm thyself with a good Mg test kit.

Seachem's - gets you 75 tests for about $48 and includes an 1180 reference mix.

If you find a better kit out there for Mg - let us all know (after you've used it).

Initial test: Find out how bad your Salt Mix is on Mg.

Mix a fresh batch to 35 ppt, --> Aerate till PH is up to 8.2 --> run Mg and Ca tests on this batch and record the result.

Use this as a reference point on where you are starting off at.

Remember - each time you do a water change with a Salt Mix that has only 950 ppm Mg you are

"hurting" your Mg levels in your tank. I know - it bites... but every Salt manufact is doing the same thing..and then selling us "additives"

to make up for it - no amount of complaining from us is going to get them to change this practice, as it makes them a ton of extra $$$.

-the Epsom Salts quickly pays for itself at 1.89 for a 4.4 lb (2 Kilograms) bag.

It took us initially 5 Kilograms to get our 300 gallon system raised from 950 to 1350.. (about 5 bucks in MgSO4)

Now - since our favorite salt mix (because of the other things it DOES contain in NSW concentrations) happens to read 950ppm Mg

We only need to put about 1lb into the RO top off every time we do a 30 gal water change to keep our Mg at 1350.

Useful tool:

I found at Seachem's website --> their calculator which lets you figure out how much of their Mg product to add per gallon

to raise the Mg from your starting concentration (whatever your testing showed) up to the recommended endpoint of 1350 ppm

The calculator is very easy to use, and (it works out the same for Epsom Salt quantities per our testing here).

go conservative a bit.. and test and tune to suit..

(This is why getting a 75 test kit was worth it).

Note: do not try to add MgSO4 crystals directly to mixed salt water--> it's already super saturated, and you may force the water to precipitate

it right back out of solution..

Instead - try to mix it with pure RO in your top-off water.

Don't raise Mg levels too fast.. .no more than 100 ppm/day

Final Note: raising Mg from 950->1350 ppm in a 300 gallon system using this method initially raises your refractometer reading form 35ppt to 36ppt

but don't panic - I have seen it drop back to 35 ppt as the week progresses and as evap gets replaced with RO once you stop adding MgSO4.

You may notice you don't need nearly as many CaCO3 additives once Mg reaches NSW level.

For us - we have saved $40/month in additives by getting our Mg right.

(We do run a reactor constantly though).

We haven't had to add any other additives (which we used to have to do pretty constantly before we tested/remedied our Mg problem).

What's bizarre is how much the montipora growth rate has shot up since doing this back in August.

I never thought possible to see these growth rates (without tons of additives) in a home tank.

Oh - and we have to credit the info /lectures on Mg levels and the importance to the overall chemical balance

we got from the last ARC meeting we went to. I had my suspicions abut Mg levels before that meeting, but afterwards I

was convinced to finally do something about them.

I was initially shocked/dismayed at the Salt Manufacturers mixes reading so low in Mg...they must think we

hobbyists are a little "chemically challenged" or something.

They way I see it we have three choices in the world for adding Mg

MgSO4 (magnesium sulfate)

MgCl2 (magnesium chloride)

MgO (magnesium oxide)

Of the three, I don't like add chloride, as there's enough sodium chloride in the system already (salt) and the precipitate release is chlorine. (Yuk)

the oxide one is very unstable, and reacts too violently (won't stay in solution long enough to be useful), so that really only leaves the sulfur choice

as practical.

H2S is a natural endpoint of the anaerobic bacteria process (later turns to DMS before released into atmosphere) - since this process

is prevalent in the oceans already I feel safer introducing an excess of sulfur atoms into the system than an excess of chlorine atoms.

[+dapettit]

Cmanning,

Any particular brand of epsom salt? Where do you get yours? I need to raise my Mg and I ran out of Tech-M. I'm thinking now would be a good time to try this. And it appears to be more cost effective.

Thanks,

Dave-

[cmanning]

Cmanning,

Any particular brand of epsom salt? Where do you get yours? I need to raise my Mg and I ran out of Tech-M. I'm thinking now would be a good time to try this. And it appears to be more cost effective.

Thanks,

Dave-

Hi Dave - this is Cindy's husband - Robert..

The brand of Epsom Salts is not really as important as the purity.

So, just check the label make sure it's USP (United States Pharmacopeia (USP) )

This means you are getting the purity that's pretty much regulated and monitored by

some type of an authority - and this one is for standards for human consumption which

I can pretty much guarantee carries much more legal weight than technical grade substances

(like road de-icer salts) . (Magnesium Chloride)

do some of your own Google research using keywords "epsom salts FDA" and you will hit

some goods links with PDF files which are MSDS sheets from a company called PQ Corporation

which is one manufacturer of both Technical Grade, and USP (Pharmaceutical Grade).

Any Pharmacy which sells "Epsom Salt, Magnesium Sulfate, U.S.P. " should be suitable.

(We get ours at HEB pharmacy - just because that's convenient for us).

Again - use the calculator on the SeaChem Website for quantities to adjust per gallon.

And don't raise it more than 100 ppm/day. <-- This is important!

It wouldn't matter if you were using SeaChem's Magnesium Salt additive, or Epsom Salts USP

as far as the rest of the calculations go. - Just do the changes slowly, because each day it raises,

organisms are going to react. (Some things will start new growth spurts - but this means they will start consuming

Calcium and Magnesium and Strontium at an even faster rate than before). --But don't worry, this is usually

what we stony growers are after anyways, - just be aware that you are going to be altering the water chemistry,

and don't shock them - let them adjust.

It also takes time for the water to balance so I would wait 6 hrs after adding to re-test for Mg/Ca/KH levels.

Do you guys run Carbon? -We do, (Kent Reef Carbon - the pellets).

This is to remove any impurities in the additives (we don't trust the industry "completely" on the purity thing,

since nobody's watching (regulating) them like USP FDA., etc.

The purity of the Carbon is also just as important.

For all we know - someone could be bottling USP grade chemicals, and selling them, OR they could just as easily

be bottling technical grade chemicals (purity in question).

And - it's the impurities we wonder (worry) about.

We have observed the chemical content labels on one Manufacturers' brand (will remain nameless here, since this is

a public forum): and we note the Mg additive contains 2 types of Mg salts: Magnesium Sulfate, and Magnesium Chloride.

The interesting thing is - they don't give amounts like 50/50 or 75/25, or what... so for all I can tell, this could be

99% Epsom Salts (sulfate)and 1% Road de-icer (chloride).

There's no way of telling what they are doing, really.

At least with the Pharmaceutical grade stuff, we know the purity of what we are getting - check the labels.

Most USP labels I see show guaranteed analysis of 9.8 percent water soluble Magnesium. and 12.9 percent Sulfur.

Each molecule contains 1 sulfur Atom, 1 Magnesium atom , and 4 Oxygen atoms. (for your weight proportions),

so - yes you are buying a lot of oxygen..(in the salt) heh..

[+dapettit]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the input and in depth explanation. I feel a little more comfortable using Epsom salt. I have been using another online calculator; however I think I would like to compare the two.

Thanks again,

Dave-

[cmanning]

Hey ! let us in on the other online calculator.. It's always good to have a few of these in the arsenal.

--Robert and Cindy.

[+dapettit]

Here it is:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

It has been posted in the past by someone else here.

Dave-