150g Indio-Pacific Biome

[Reburn]

And another way to rule out regulator and needle vale failure is to check to see if your bottle still has gas. If it does the failure was somewhere else.

[FarmerTy]

This is hard to diagnose without actually seeing the setup, at least for me. There are so many variables with a CaRX to think about.

If I had a wild guess, I'd go with your bubble rate being set too high and solenoid failure. It's hard to gas a tank if your bubble rate is basically maintained the same, with or without the solenoid. The solenoid is just for insurance. The only way this setup would fail is if the regulator malfunctioned and dumped tons of gas into the tank. The hope though is that your solenoid is functioning and would put a quick stop to that.

[FarmerTy]

If my solenoid failed right now, my tank wouldn't be gassed because my bubble rate is close to where it should be anyways.

If my regulator malfunctioned and put tons of gas out, my solenoid would shut it off once my pH started dropping. If both failed at the same time... then I'm one unlucky reefer and the reef gods were out to get me anyway.

[Reburn]

With what I'm understanding is,

His c02 gas and feed line enter at his bubble counter on his reactor. A blockage at this point caused the co2 pressure to rise where the co2 pressure was more then the feed pressure. At this point co2 gas started back flowing into his DT through his manifold. Remember since pressure and flow aren't always linear his return manifold was flowing lots with only a little pressure. The gas could have easily overcame the return pressure. Once the gas hit his manifold it functioned just like a co2 reactor we use on planted tanks disolving the co2 and distributed it into the DT. Since his only PH probe was in his reactor that was no longer receiving feed water or gas the reactor PH remained unchanged while his DT PH dropped. Since his bubble count was too high and he was relying on his solonoid to trip on and off through out the day or a needle valve failure, it was enough gas to gas his tank. Since he didn't have another PH probe in his DT the was no redundant probe in place to turn off his CaRx and C02.

[FarmerTy]

That seems like a likely scenario for what happened, especially if the feed line and the CO2 line are combined in your reactor.

I'd agree with Reburn on the 2nd probe, it probably could have averted all this or at least given you enough time to respond to it and save more livestock. If you do kick it back up, I wouldn't do it without the 2nd probe.

[Sascha D.]

I have a Milwaukee MA957 Regulator and I followed the instructions here.

The instructions say to use the regulator knob to adjust the bubble count and to use the needle valve "as a last resort". I adjusted the bubble count over three days until the pH in the media chamber read 6.5. After that I tested my Alk and made adjustments to bubble count and effluent drip until my daily usage was stable. The needle valve was not used and remained open. The solenoid was plugged into the controller and set to turn off if the pH reading was less than 6.5. I've been running it like this for about a year or so.

Here is a picture of my calcium reactor. You can see bubble counter with yellow and red lines connected. The red line is CO2 gas, the bottom yellow line is input from the manifold and the top yellow line goes to the circulation pump. The blue line is effluent out.

[Reburn]

I don't agree with Milwaukees instructions but I know I need a working pressure of a minimum of 30psi for my planted tanks so using the needle valve to adjust bubble rate is a must. CaRx can be adjusted either way.

Your picture is exactly what i thought it was. Here is an illustration on what I believe occurred.

[Reburn]

What was your bubble count. You could gas a FW tank with as little as 1 or 2 bubble a second if your dissolve rate is good and on for long enough. Most FW tanks turn off and on their co2 with the lights. If yours has been running like this for a day or three I can see how you could gas your fish.

[Sascha D.]

Thanks Reburn. That is what I think may have happened as well. I won't know for sure until I take the bubble counter a part and see if there was a clog. Since the reactor is hooked up to the manifold, it could be possible that something got sucked into the return and ended up clogging the reactor. If that is the case then the equipment may be okay and it was just a fluke accident. How do I prevent this from happening? Run a pH probe to the tank and have it shut off the solenoid if the pH drops too low?

My bubble count was 10 per minute.

[Reburn]

There are a couple ways to avoid this in the future. I will list them in order that I would do them

1). Run a DT ph probe to turn off solonoid if the DT ph drops below range.

2). Move your feed line to somewhere else that a clog would pass like right before the impeller on the Recirculation pump.

3). Run a check valve on your feed line. This poses another set of mainintenence problems though. And may require monthly maintenance and feed line consistency problems resulting in alk swings.

On a separate note at 10 bubbles a minute you should have been fine with over 150g TWV unless it has been clogged a week. When was the last time you checked it and saw it was functioning properly?

The Milwaukee MA957 is a single stage regulator so you should be cautious of EOTD. I wouldn't let your bottle pressure fall below 150 or so before swapping. The regulators have been know to fail at a higher rate then some other regulators too. I only put about half stock in this as since they are cheaper more people run them, I wouldn't say the failure rate is any higher percentage wise then more expensive setups.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146921

[Sascha D.]

I checked it on Saturday and the incident happened on Wednesday. I check the effluent and water levels every night because I've had it clog before. I agree that 10bpm is low and that shouldn't have caused a problem in a 16 hour period. There must have been something else that happened in conjunction. The empty bubble counters would be consistent with the high gas flow and it's likely the regulator is bad. I will probably have to replace the solenoid as well, if even just to sleep at night.

[Reburn]

I would check the regulator combo for sure as well. But the way that particular reactor is setup the water could have gotten pushed out of the bubble counter because the input lines are both on the bottom. If the top line gets clogged the gas would acclimate in the top of the bubble counter eventually pushing the water out the bottom back out the feed line. Your bubble counter on your Milwaukee being dry does for sure indicate high gas flow. That's why big planted tank guys (150g+) just remove the bubble counters or fill them with glycerin or other food based oils. They are generally running 7+ bubbles second into a C02 reactor.

I run 1.5 bubbles a second on my small 5g FW tank for reference.

I would bet your regulator combo failed somewhere.

[Sascha D.]

I'm not even sure how to check to see if the regulator is working. The first step is going to be checking to see if there was a clog. I'm going to plug in the circulation pump and open the gate valve on the manifold. That should fill the reactor with water and start the effluent. If there is a clog then water will not fill the media chamber. If the calcium reactor operates normally without the gas then the problem is a bad regulator combo and I'm just going to replace it.

Should I replace the whole thing or just a part? The regulator combo is comprised of the pressure gauges, flow control valve, solenoid and needle valve. If in doubt I'll just buy a complete new system.

[Reburn]

Agreed on the clog that is how I would test it.

On the regulators I don't fix them. I just drop them off at round rock welding supply, Texas welding supply or airgas or just buy new ones. The solenoid is easy to check. If it still clicks it's probably working. You know how to test this. Gas flows when it's plugged in and shouldn't flow when it's turned off. A gauge failure wouldn't have caused unrestricted gas flow so if they are working they are fine. Needle valves are a bit harder to test but I have never heard of one blowing out either, they generally stick in the position they are in and won't open or close but chances are it's probably the diaphragm in the regulator body itself. I'm not going to lie I would be over my head replacing one. I'm sure I could do it but I haven't in a long time and not ever a Milwaukee only victor, I'm not sure where to even get parts. If the diaphragm doesn't get set right it can blow right back out or leak. With what places charge to repair regulators in not sure the Milwaukee at $90 new on Amazon and $100 on BRS would be worth it. I would bet it would take $40 and a week for some shops to fix it.

[Reburn]

Milwaukee needle valve repair procedure

http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/pdf/clogged_needle_valve_repair.pdf

[BornToHula]

Wow, I'm truly sorry for your losses. It's crazy that after all the planning and work we put into our tanks, a small malfunction can cause such a disaster.

[Sascha D.]

Today is the first day that the tank isn't cloudy and I get to see the rock work. I think it turned out well. Most of the hard corals are white, but some are showing life. The softies are open and the LPS look damaged but alive. Almost everything in the sand will be sold as soon as I know its safe.

I have a fish!!! I'm so happy to see this little guy!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[Sascha D.]

Agreed on the clog that is how I would test it.

On the regulators I don't fix them. I just drop them off at round rock welding supply, Texas welding supply or airgas or just buy new ones. The solenoid is easy to check. If it still clicks it's probably working. You know how to test this. Gas flows when it's plugged in and shouldn't flow when it's turned off. A gauge failure wouldn't have caused unrestricted gas flow so if they are working they are fine. Needle valves are a bit harder to test but I have never heard of one blowing out either, they generally stick in the position they are in and won't open or close but chances are it's probably the diaphragm in the regulator body itself. I'm not going to lie I would be over my head replacing one. I'm sure I could do it but I haven't in a long time and not ever a Milwaukee only victor, I'm not sure where to even get parts. If the diaphragm doesn't get set right it can blow right back out or leak. With what places charge to repair regulators in not sure the Milwaukee at $90 new on Amazon and $100 on BRS would be worth it. I would bet it would take $40 and a week for some shops to fix it.

Thanks for all of your help today. The solenoid turned of yesterday when I unplugged it so it must be the regulator. I'll check the lines tonight.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[FarmerTy]

Dude, nothing against the old scape but I like this one a lot!

Glad your favorite fish pulled through!

[Reburn]

I agree with Ty, scape looks nice. Hopefully everything will pull through. Love the fact that the jawfish pulled through.

It's no problem on the help I am always happy to help. Check your PM's

[Sascha D.]

Silver linings right?

I checked the reactor and it started right up. Definitely something with the regulator.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[Sascha D.]

Week 86 Update:

If you had asked me a year ago where I would be around week 86, then this would not have been my answer. Trying to find the upside is hard when you're watching everything deteriorate right before your eyes. Seeing as how I don't have anything else to lose, I decided to do some housekeeping and maintenance.

The first thing that I would like to do is get all of my equipment into the sump. To do that I have to redesign the manifold to give me some more head room in the first chamber. I hate plumbing! I went to HD and Lowe's to get some of that 1" blue pool/spa tubing and it turns out they don't sell it anymore. Ughh I hate plumbing! All they had was 1 1\8th tubing and that didn't fit my 1" barb. I ended up having to use the braided tubing because the vinyl tubing I had before kinked in the bend. Did I mention I hate plumbing?

The next thing I have to do is remove the baffles and re-install them with a better spacing. Chamber one has to be larger to incorporate the calcium reactor footprint. I would also like to make chamber three larger to fit the media reactor.

[FarmerTy]

Nice sump work! That's a compliment you'll only get and receive in our hobby and truly appreciate it. How long did the silicone dry before you went wet again?

I'll say this, I know looking back you'd hope you were much further along in a year but think about this, imagine how much your knowledge of corals and associated subjects in reef keeping has expanded over that same year. Sometimes, it's nice to focus on the knowledge gained over the year and lessons learned and less so on the final end product. With what you know now, the Sascha 2.0 tank will be that much better and started off on the right foot... or stand I should say?

[Sascha D.]

I let the silicon cure for 48 before I water tested. I made due with what I had, but I probably should have built a whole new structure from scratch. I was worried about going to long without filtration. The corals are already stressed as it is.

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[Sascha D.]

So next steps...

Tank

All in all I have changed out about 50% of the total water volume while cleaning the sand bed and the sump. Some of the water parameters have fluctuated and the tank is showing a glimpse of ammonia and nitrates. Algae growth has been steady. There is no phosphate input since there aren't any fish in the system, but I expect a miniature cycle as the available nutrients get used up by the algae. It's going to be hard, but I need to avoid messing with the system while it works everything out. After that I can add some CUC and allow them to establish.

Equipment

The last piece of equipment I need to hook up is the ATO. I have the controller and the float switches. Now I just need to order a bracket. The cheapest one is at BRS, but the shipping is 30% of the cost. Sheesh!

Fish

I really liked my fish and I'm sad that they are gone. Some people are never happy with what they have, but I really didn't want for anything new. Anyone have any suggestions on fish? Right now the possibilities are open because there aren't any fish or inverts in the tank. I may leave it fallow for 6 weeks but I don't see the point as I didn't have a problem with Ich before. It may be time for an Emperor Angelfish. I would be open to an Radiata Lionfish or Miniatus Grouper, but I am afraid of them knocking over corals or otherwise making a mess. A Wrasse tank sounds pretty cool as well.

Corals

The corals have had a stressful week and most have not opened up fully. The polyp corals do not seem to be affected and most of the LPS have good colors. The SPS are hit and miss and most have bleached. My largest Montipora seems to be getting some color back, but the Jedi Mind Trick, Tri-Color Undata, and Rainbow Montipora look completely gone. The three Stylophora are holding on by a thread. The Acropora look like a mixed bag with the Cali Tort and Tri-Color Valida doing the best. Some of them have completely bleached and started growing algae on the skeletons. In my experience that is a sure sign that they will not come back. Some people say to take a toothbrush and keep it clean but I've never seen one come back once the algae has started to grow. I will give them a few weeks to see if any recover but I do anything to the tank.