Reef tank temperature

[quicc]

Sorry for newbie question I know this has been asked before but getting multiple range searching on the net....

I have just upgraded from a 10g nano to a 70g reef ready tank. I have two external pump on my sump. one for return and one for my protein skimmer. (500gph and 350gph) I have 2 Koralia 4, 1 Seio 820 and 1 Seio 1100. (Too much?) With no light the temp is at 80deg. (room temp is ~79) Is this too hot? I would like to keep SPS, Clam and non aggressive Fish. What do you keep your temp at?

http://www.austinreefclub.com/index.php?showtopic=2743

[xcreonx]

My tank is kept around 81. I've kept it anywhere from 78 - 82 in the past. I've never seen any negative effects either way. Now I just keep it at 81 and everyone seems healthy.

Edited December 14, 2007 by xcreonx

[GKarshens]

I keep it at 80 because that is where it gets with all the lights on and the fans going. So I set my heaters to stay in that range. I don't think it makes much difference what temperature you keep it at in the 76-82 range as long as you keep it stable. Temp swings are what will cause problems.

[jsr]

I try to stay around 80. I have my heater set to kick on once the tank drops to 78. Anything above 81 and I start manually bringing it down using fozen water bottles, but that is very rare that I get above 81.

[GKarshens]

I would set your heaters higher. You ideally want less than 1 degree of swing.

[quicc]

Thank you for all your reply. Was thinking lower temperature was better 77 or so but it seems stability is much more important. Will try to keep at 80. I now understand why heaters are needed. I have one more thing to put on my list of things to get at tomorrow's sale on the LFS Great timing!

[Entropy]

Mine is 79 most of the time except towards the end of the halide cycle when the house is warm. It hits close to 80 then. If the house is colder than 70 (lately) it never moves of 79 even with the halides on for 6 hours.

[Headless_donkey]

80 what gabriel said about the lights and stuff

[SirReal63]

There are varying opinions on this subject. What we do know...reef temps are not constant, in fact they can swing as much as 10-15 degrees rapidly. Because of this the corals in the wild are able to handle temp. fluctuations, just as saltwater fish are more able to handle temp fluctuations than freshwater fish. The problem we face is once collected corals are usually kept in a temp. stable environment and lose the adaptive ability to handle temp. fluctuations. We spend a great deal of money on equipment to keep our temps stable and ultimately something will happen such as a power outage, controller malfunction etc. and the temp changes from our target and the corals bleach, die or suffer greatly. This is because they no longer have the adaptive ability to deal with fluctuations. In short we are helping to create our own downfall when temps do change.

The good news...corals have this ability to adapt built in, but they must be exposed to changes in order to keep their adaptive abilities working. In my prior tank I ran a chiller, it was set to come on at 83 and in the evenings my tank temps would drop to about 77-78 and during the day heat to a normal high of about 82, hence the chiller set to come on at 83, it was the insurance policy. The daily swing in temps did not hurt them at all and when I did have something go wrong such as a warmer than normal day the corals faired just fine. I had a power outage last June from a tripped breaker that cut the a/c off. The tank temps rose to about 90 before I got home and re-set it. I lost two little frags of sps and nothing else. I have no idea how long the tank was at 90 or how long it took to get there but my colonies were just fine as were the clams, the inverts and fish. Do I believe in letting a tank go through a normal swing in temps...definitely.

If you were to take a coral that has grown in a constant temp and started changing the temp to have a 5 degree fluctuation daily it would kill it...you would have to start slowly and build up to it much in the same way this 44 year old body would not get up right now and run a 20K marathon...it would probably kill me. lol. But if I trained for it I could do it again. (maybe)

Old myths in this hobby are slowly fading away...this one probably came about from more than 20 years ago when coral keeping was still new. It has been recommended for years that we keep our temps at 77 and this was probably because at that temp sps expend less energy than at 80+ degrees. It let them live longer than a higher temp would back then. Today we understand these creatures a little better and can keep them alive and healthy.

Of course this is just my experience and that of many others that have also discovered that a constant temp is not always a good thing. Corals do not come from a constant temp. environment.

[GKarshens]

That all may be true but the problem is most corals you get now are either aquacultured or have been kept in tanks through the wholesaler and stores at a constant for awhile. Therefore it is safer to have them at a constant. Also I am curious where in the ocean are there 10-15 degree rapid changes? I have been to many tropical and non-tropical beaches and dove in 4 different countries. Everywhere I have been the water was pretty consistent on a daily basis. Now over a change in seasons this could be a different story. However most of the corals we keep come from tropical regions where there isn't much of a change in seasons. All that being said, I don't doubt that you have successfully gotten your corals used to a temp swing, but I think that for most reef keepers, especially new ones, a stable temp is the much safer route.

[SirReal63]

I am disagreeing...actually I do agree for the most part. From the moment corals are collected they are held in a constant temp and this continues down the chain until it ends up in our tanks. This is part of the problem. It is not natural for the corals. I am not sure if anyone keeps up with the drama on RC...I try and avoid a lot of it, however there is a great deal of information available there. This is a recent thread where this very subject was discussed...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...hreadid=1258865 I first learned that some of the things we do because they have always been done that way were wrong when I was fortunate enough to listen to Calfo speak and give us a frag workshop in St Louis. He is a very non-traditional and sometimes controversial "expert" in the reef community but most of what he said made sense. We were blessed with Borneman the next year who also debunked a lot of the myths that he helped propagate years before. This is one of my favorite articles that Shimek wrote...note the chart of the daily temp swings.

http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php

Popular myths discussed... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

The beauty of this hobby is there is no right or wrong way for the most part. Corals are not fragile and delicate creatures...they come from a very rough and hostile environment. If you can meet the basics for their survival you will be amazed at what they can endure. My only point is not to stress out about your tank. Keep the water, light and flow appropriate for the creatures you have and enjoy the hobby. :-) Now I need to get back to setting this tank up.

[SirReal63]

Oops...sorry Gabriel...that should read I am not disagreeing. lol

[Entropy]

I love articles like that. They fail to establish the most important difference between our little boxes and the ocean. SIZE! In order to duplicate a natural reef you need a 100% water change per second, unlimited sunlight per day, and plenty of real estate. All of those are pretty much impossible to manage in a house. Add to that the issue that most of us are keeping corals that are totally unrelated and often are not even found in the same part of the world, along with fish and other critters that could be totally foreign in relation to the corals. I honestly think stability in both temp and salinity are in your best interest.

[SirReal63]

It has been said many times there is more than one path to success. I have spent the better part of 5 years studying everything I can find and one thing is certain...we have a long ways to go before we know all the answers. Mixing species that may never come into close proximity with each other has nothing to do with temperatures but does prove that these creatures are very adaptable. In the end it doesn't matter if you keep your temps stable or let them vary, both will work as long as you can keep the regimen up. I'll continue to listen to the scientists whose goal is to further the hobby but always with a grain of salt...they may change their mind on things in a few years.

[4R00P3R]

Okay, I've heard many people say that there are constant water changes in the ocean. WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA!!??? The water that replaces the previous water is just as used. It's like the current from a powerhead. The fact that new water is coming to the area has nothing to do with the freshness or cleanliness of the water. If anything, it proves that you don't ever have to do a water change. You will still have to add supplements though. The aquarium doesn't replicate the decay process which puts nutrients back into the water.

About the issue of temperature...humans can live in a wide range of temperatures. That doesn't mean that it's good for us to experience a wide fluctuation daily. Many virii are contracted when a body has to change tolerances thus the saying "you caught a cold". Corals, like people and other animals, may be able to handle a wide range of temperatures, but they have preferences that don't favor daily fluctuation. If you keep the temperature more stable and have a seasonal temperature change your corals will be happier. Millions of years of evolution have created these animals. In order for them to adapt to temperature variences they only need to experience it once in a while (seasonally).

Edited December 16, 2007 by 4R00P3R

[GKarshens]

Actually it is a constant water change. In our closed systems the water gets used up and trace elements are used. Therefore we need to do water changes to replace those and remove nitrates and other crap that builds up in the water. In the ocean this is constantly happening. Ergo a constant water change. It may still be ocean water but it is serving the purpose of a water change.

[Entropy]

I agree with Gabriel and would add that much like space, only a very very small portion of the ocean is inhabited by coral reefs. Most of the ocean is just plain saltwater and almost completely void of any life at all. Think of the ocean as a 29 gallon reef setup hooked to a 10 gazillion gallon sump.

[GKarshens]

Good analogy!

[SirReal63]

Most of the ocean is just plain saltwater and almost completely void of any life at all.

I suppose you have documentation to support that somewhat wild theory? Someone should tell those poor baline whales that the planktonic food they have evolved throughout time to sustain themselves with is actually not alive at all. lol

It is true that corals inhabit a very small portion of the total ocean and the influx of the main body of water is in many ways a water change. Creatures at all depths of the ocean and in all temperatures have evolved to consume the life that is there, it is far from void of life. I think we have let ourselves get off topic. Keep your temps where you are comfortable with them and your livestock thrives.