Mr Cob Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm thinking about making my entire breeding program parasite free...or at least ICH free. I lost a black ice male today to ICH and his female snowflake is also showing signs. Serious bummer and I really cannot afford to go through this too many times. Fortunately I have all of my pairs spread out across 4 systems...so really praying my casualties are minimal. So...if I treat all of my systems directly what product would you suggest? The systems will not have coral and i will do my best at removing snails and inverts. They will have fish, deep sand beds and macro algae...pretty much reef thanks with reef parameters but without the coral. Looking for suggestions from those that have treated systems directly. I have a lot of clowns to treat across 4 systems and do not wish to set up quarantine. Once all systems have been treated I will set up a quarantine tank for any new fish. Thanks for the help. Sent from my HTC VIVID using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The only REAL way to get rid of the parasite is copper, which cannot be done in a FOWLR. You could try extreme hyposalinity (if you do, monitor the pH very closely and have a buffer on hand to bring it back up), but that may affect the bacterial population in the sand bed. The "kick ich" "rid ich" etc. tend to be more of snake oil than anything else... My suggestion would be to feed Dr. G's anti-parasitic in tank, and follow with freshwater dips/baths. However, this only treats the fish, not the actual water, and it cannot break the cycle of ich. But, at least it would be enough to get the fish through. Also, hook up a UV sterilizer in each. If you can vacate each of the systems for a minimum of a month (ie, rotate into a different "cured" section), you would have the best shot of getting rid of it for good. Despite our differences, I know how bad it is to lose breeder pairs to ich, and sympathize with you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would second the use of a UV sterilizer and also agree most in tank medications like "kick ich" or "rid ich" are inconsistant at best. If you try something like that use Metronidiazole, it's much cheaper and easier to dose but should not be used concurrently with UV and is removed with carbon. Here's a link to a good paper on Ich: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164 I think it's important to point out that while most of the cysts do hatch out in about a week the cysts can remain viable for much longer, up to 10 weeks has been documented. Whatever treatment protocal you use since none of them, including copper, work on the cysts stage be prepared for either repeated treatment or prolonged treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 +1 on uv sterilizer, used it when i first got ich 3 years ago and and it disapeared in a week and never came back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cob Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 thanks for the feedback everyone...yes you too ClarkiiCircus I got feedback from a member on MAAST that strains of cryptocaryon are resistant to hyposalinity. So, I'm really considering using one of my breeder systems not currently set up as a quaraintine that will allow the other systems to go fishless. Just going to sit back for a bit and look over all of the suggestions on the different forums I posted. I appreciate the replies. I know everyone hates replying to ich threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrshall1027 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I know how you are feeling right now because it seems like we have an ich outbreak in our tank too I read these two articles and I'm hoping following the advice and method will help get my little guys back to being in tip top shape. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/52236-curing-fish-marine-ich.html http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think the only way to completely rid your tank of ich is to leave it fallow (no fish) for 9+ weeks. There's some more information on hyposalinity here. I have both Pacific Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and a good UV sterilizer. I know neither is a singular solution to curing marine ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), but I firmly believe both help my fish recover on their own (no chemicals/medications as I have a lot of crustaceans). The cleaner shrimp go after ich spots on infested fish. They may not get most or all of the parasites since they bury deep, but they try hard and do get a percentage. The UV sterilizer can only get the parasites that are floating/swimming in the water column and happen to go through the sump and sterilizer, but again there is a percentage killed. Then reducing stress for the fish and feeding well with garlic has worked for me every time. Including right now as I had an outbreak last week. Mine was due to introducing a new Powder Brown Tang then stressing everything out trying to re-catch it after it began eating LPS. So far all of fully recovered except the bicolor blenny which is almost fully recovered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 While you sit back and look, I REALLY recommend Dr. G's medicated food. Because if the ich has already claimed 1 fish, it won't be too long before it claims others, especially in such close proximity with shared nests and mating behaviors. Feed it as you would normal food, and it should start helping within 24 hours. The giant problem with ich is the concept of "recovered". We can only see the parasite in one stage of its life, however, its nearly always there lurking once you have it... that means, no matter what a pain it is, you always have to treat both the fish, and the DT if you want it gone, and don't want to run the risk of it killing another pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 thanks for the feedback everyone...yes you too ClarkiiCircus I got feedback from a member on MAAST that strains of cryptocaryon are resistant to hyposalinity. Your Welcome! I'm curious if the person from MAAST gave you references or if it was just anecdotal? I've seen different specific gravities recommended for hyposalinity tanks ranging from 1.007 to 1.015. I would not be surprised if there were variants that have acclimated to 1.015 but I would like to see research showing variants can survive at 1.007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 thanks for the feedback everyone...yes you too ClarkiiCircus I got feedback from a member on MAAST that strains of cryptocaryon are resistant to hyposalinity. Your Welcome! I'm curious if the person from MAAST gave you references or if it was just anecdotal? I've seen different specific gravities recommended for hyposalinity tanks ranging from 1.007 to 1.015. I would not be surprised if there were variants that have acclimated to 1.015 but I would like to see research showing variants can survive at 1.007. Found this reference on Instan Oceans website from the Summer 1994 SeaScope (scroll down about 2/3rds): http://www.instantocean.com/Ocean-of-Knowledge/SeaScope/~/media/UPG/Files/Instant%20Ocean/SeaScope/Volume%2011_1994.ashx "Editor’s Note: Low salinity is another approach to controlling Cryptocaryon. Colorni (1985, 1987) reported various methods for treating fish using hyposalinity. One approach was to lower salinity in fish aquariums to 10 parts per thousand (ppt), or a specific gravity of 1.007, for 3 hours every third day to kill tomonts in the aquarium before they could hatch. He also found that tomonts exposed to salinity of 20 to 25 ppt (specific gravity of 1.0145 to 1.018) produced tomites, but their hatching was delayed up to 28 days. Thus reducing salinity to 23 ppt (specific gravity of 1.017) may not be consistently effective. Cysts kept at 15 ppt (specific gravity of 1.011) for 48 hours or more did not produce any live tomites. We have used low salinity to treat fish with Cryptocaryon here in our lab. We remove half the water in the aquarium and replace it over a 1 hour period with dechlorinated fresh water. The resulting salinity (approximately 15 ppt or specific gravity of 1.011) is maintained for 7 to 10 days. This treatment should not be used for invertebrates or especially sensitive fish, but most marine fish will tolerate it well." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ive had ich 3 separate times in 3 separate systems. I used a UV on all 3. All of them displayed no signs of ich after only a week. I let the UV run during daylight schedule and off at night (most pod activity). All fish were still eating though so they were not on the downward spiral that happens a lot of times when ich breaks out. Hydro has had many tangs (ich prone) and he combats them using UV as well with great success. Ive never tried copper or hypo salinity since I was able to combat it with the addition of a UV lamp. Very slow flow through the lamp provided the best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cob Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I picked up a uv lastnight. 24w. I did a 20% water change and added some vitamins to tank. I then dosed with Maracide. Dosing is on day 1, 3 and 5. I'm just going to keep on trucking. After all the reviews I honestly do not believe i can be 100% ich free or that any system can be from what I have read and from all the replies to this thread here, on MAAST and Reef2Reef...and if I can't be 100% free of the parasite then what's the point of going through all of that trouble...? Sent from my HTC VIVID using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cob Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 all of my tanks got vitamins: Marine-Max "Disease Prevention & Life Extensions. The 40g breeder system was treated for ich with Maracide and the UV was added to this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickH Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yeah ich free seems to be an illusion lol. Like cyano and diatoms and gha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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