gibs Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hey guys been out of town for a few days and got back to day to find my frogspawn looking weird. The person who looks in on my tank while I am gone said yesterday it looked fine. Everything else in the tank seems very happy so I have included some pics of them in case a more experienced eye will see something I dont. This is a top down image of the frogspawn what is the white? Side image is it splitting? Another side image. Zoas seem happier than ever they usually dont extend out that much and got a few new heads? Week old mushrooms seem fine? The gsp hasn't changed much since the day I got it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubasteve92 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Can you see two individual mouths on that head of the frogspawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pailines Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It looks kinda bleached in 2nd and 3rd picture? Not sure if it's flash or not, but the white "thing" @ picture 1 is the skeleton of it, not a good sign. Check water parameter lately? Water change etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibs Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Can you see two individual mouths on that head of the frogspawn? Not sure what to look for as the mouths will google it real quick and see what I find. It looks kinda bleached in 2nd and 3rd picture? Not sure if it's flash or not, but the white "thing" @ picture 1 is the skeleton of it, not a good sign. Check water parameter lately? Water change etc? Thats what I thought the white thing was. I did a water change Sunday morning and tested everything ammonia was zero nitrites 0 nitrates 0.75 calc was 375 a little low but not harmful magnesium 1200 also a little low but again not harmful. Will be doing more water tests tonight and will update. If you look at second pic on the left side is what I would say the frogspawn looks like in the tank. I think it was the flash that made it look a little bleached but it is a bit high in the tank...you think I should move it down to the sand bed? Its only a 16g nano so high is sitting on a rock and low is sitting in the sand bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 How long has it been at it's present location? If it's been a while, as in several weeks, I would not move it but it's a judgement call. I have one tank that has a bunch of frog spawn (50 - 60 heads) and every once in a while I have one polyp die for no apparent reason while all the others seem to be as happy as clams. I doupt it will hurt anything if you dip it but I would not neccessarily think it neccessary (Ithink my english teacher just roled over with that sentance). If you lose another polyp or if you see some "brown jelly" or slime I would dip it as soon as possible however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibs Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 How long has it been at it's present location? If it's been a while, as in several weeks, I would not move it but it's a judgement call. I have one tank that has a bunch of frog spawn (50 - 60 heads) and every once in a while I have one polyp die for no apparent reason while all the others seem to be as happy as clams. I doupt it will hurt anything if you dip it but I would not neccessarily think it neccessary (Ithink my english teacher just roled over with that sentance). If you lose another polyp or if you see some "brown jelly" or slime I would dip it as soon as possible however. I have had the since July 5th. I have never seen any sign that it was unhappy. I saw some slime when I first put it in but as I understand it that was just a defense mechanism of the coral. Nothing at all resembling "brown jelly". In the last hour or so that I have been home if you look at the second and third pics the tendrils that are right by the white skeleton area have were really drawn in but they almost all extended fully back out like the rest of the coral? I am really perplexed by this. Why would half of one head look like a skeleton and the rest seem fine? I am debating whether to pull it out of the rock to get a better look at the damaged area but scared to mess with it right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibs Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Ok my hermit crab climbed up and is doing some clean up and I got a better pic. One is the hermit crab hurting the coral more now? Should I shoo him off or just leave him alone? The 2 heads by the dead zone have now shrunken back in but they were very extended before the crab climbed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pailines Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I would just leave it alone for the time being, but keep a close eye on it. If the other head isn't receding, it should be fine. Also see if anything is nipping at the Frogspawn, sometime hermit crabs nip at the coral skeleton for the algae, but gets too close to the flesh and actually causes damage to the corals. P.S. Is there any flow around the coral? Too strong can cause damage, and too little makes the water stale. The coral should gently sway in the current, no direct current from the power head tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pailines Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 DId some research for you. I believe it's your light thats the culprit. Frogspawn need moderate amount of light to sustain it self. And according to this document, by the manufactor, Click Here in order to reach minimum level of light nessecarry for a Frogspawn, you would need to place the coral 'ONE' inch from the surface of the water. Bottom line, your tank is in a low light situation, it's bare minimum for soft corals, but impossible for LPS Someone chime in and confirm my findings, cause i know i aint that good at researching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmerzs Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Doesn't look like a lighting issue. Usually some type of damage as mentioned causes something like this. I would personally punt the hermit away, they will keep eating on dead or sick coral's and could injure your healty head's in the process. I would also cut that head off, dip it and place it away from the healthy head's. YMMV Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Can you get a close up image of the head where the skeleton is showing through? I think I see an intact mouth on that head. As long as the coral has an intact mouth and is not continuing to recede it can recover. In my experience I have found Mag and Alk to be the most important for keeping LPS happy, so if those parameters are low you should raise them (slowly!). If the head continues to recede you should cut it off the skeleton so that the dying coral does not pollute your water. Definitely keep the hermits away, sometimes in cleaning off dead tissue they can tear into the live tissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 In the link to the article Pailines posted I like that the manufacturer gave the PAR values and light field for thier lights but the first table giving reccomended light levels for different corals has to be taken as just a VERY broad generalization. I know some of the acro species, which are usually thought of as needing high light, in the wild can be found from the surface to depths of 180 feet. I have Frogspawn doing fine under 10 PAR and sibling colonies doing well under roughly 200 PAR. If the light was too intense what I would expect to see would be withdrawn tenticles. What I see are well extended polyps. Since your coral has been in the same place for three weeks I would reiterate Pailines reccommendation to leave it but keep an eye on it. Sometimes corals do have to be moved around to find thier "happy spot" but keep in mind moving a coral around is basicly like transplanting a bush in a garden, if you keep transplanting it you're going to kill it. If it's been in the same place for three weeks it's already acclimating to that location. With regards to the hermit crab I would leave it and let it eat the damaged polyp. My reasoning is any damaged tissue left on the skeleton from the polyp that has partially died can become the source for an infection and as small as the hermit drab is bumping into the polyps around it is not going to hurt the healthy polyps. Considering the sting Frogspawn have I seriously doupt the hermit is going to start munching on the healthy polyps In the tank I mentioned in my first post in this thread I once watched a Coral Beauty, which has been in the tank for years and still is, serenely pick away at a damaged frogspawn polyp but has never been observed in many years bothering healthy polyps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mFrame Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 My first thought was Brown Jelly, if you look at the base of the head that is closed up it appears there. If so, you'll need to do something or it can wipe out the whole colony very quickly. Is there brown mucous type stuff on any of the other heads or skeleton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibs Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hey guys thanks for all the replies I went to bed early last night and back up again this morning for a trip to houston. I am honestly wondering at this point if it has been this way for awhile cause I got back home today the two heads that were retracted quite a bit last night were at full extension again and I had to really look to see it. I did move him around a bit and looked really really closely for any sign of brown mucus or jelly and I see nothing like that. The white part is definitely a skeleton and when I got a better look at it, it goes really really deep. The hermit crab didn't stay on it long I think it was actually looking for some brown algae that is on that rock and I have never seen anything else close to it. The lighting situation has me concerned now but it seems to be doing really good over the past few weeks with very long extension and looks good as far as I can tell as far as color goes. I am going to leave him alone for a few weeks is there any harm in leaving the skeleton if everything else is doing fine? Or should I just go ahead and snip it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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