Flow rate?

[scubasteve92]

Hey,

I was wondering what everyones turnover rate was in there tanks. Looking for people with mainly SPS dominate tanks.

Thanks

Josh

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

We run 45x+ and sometimes as much as 100x turnover. You can run less when your sps are frags, but once they get to be colonies. Then they will require more flow. Flow also will make different types of sps grow in different ways. Birdsnest for example... In high flow areas they will grow with thinner branches and in lower flow areas they will be short and fat branches.

This is a very controversial subject.

WE feel the more the water can process through the sump which in return has your mechanical and sometimes your UV/Ozone filtration. The better. Now, the skimmer will only process the water that is being pumped or gravity fed into it.. It doesn't matter if it’s going past the skimmer at a rate of 2 gph or 10k gph. The skimmer can only take in and process the same amount of water. This is why we process as much water in an hr. as we can. Also, we try to keep from using Power heads and unsightly pumps in the DT. CL are the next best thing for more water flow.

Others will disagree and that is fine.. Others will say to slow the flow down so the skimmer can process more water. But, this theory just doesn’t make sense to us.. We just refer to the paragraph above.

Also, every tank is different. What works for us, might not work for you. This is why this hobby is so great..

Happy Reefing..

[Timfish]

. . .This is a very controversial subject . . .

" . . . controversial subject . . ." Boy that's an understatement! But that seems to be true with just about every aspect of this hobby. I'm on the completely opposite end of the chart. I don't see a need for either skimming or high flow rates through a sump and/or refugium. Yes, some corals do better or have better colors with higher flow rates but I'm of the opinion that can be done in tank with power heads which uses less electricity and produces less heat and even then doing 20X or 30X I think is overkill. I would talk to whoever you get your corals from and try to duplicate the conditions the corals grew in.

Also, every tank is different. What works for us, might not work for you. This is why this hobby is so great..

Happy Reefing..

I could not agree with you more!

[scubasteve92]

Thanks for the replies!

I was reading and found many different opinions about it. Some say 10x and others say +100x. I read that an MP10 wasnt pushing enough for a tank that is 24in L. Just curious, they could be wanting +100x tho, they didnt mention that.

Josh

[Sascha D.]

I have always followed the rule of 7-8x for lps and 10x+ for sps. Personally I've never heard of anyone doing 100x, probably because it would be super costly in a large aquarium to have a return that strong. I would imagine the fish would have a difficult time the closer they got to the inlet. It would be easier and less expensive to put a power head pointing directly at the corals versus a return pump in the sump because it would lose pressure for each foot of vertical travel.

[George Monnat Jr]

This is a skosh off topic.

@Get Pumped Saltwater,

what flow do you recommend for clams?

If you have a mixture of SPS, LPS, clams, etc. do you keep flow at the maximum of all of them (like SPS), and does that negatively affect anything? You can try to hide things from the flow, but that can be difficult while trying to keep high PAR.

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

These are great questions. And I will elaborate and try to fill in gaps here and there.. But, Thank you for asking..

“what flow do you recommend for clams?”

We have found the following: Med to Low flow.. They can handle High flow also, but not direct pressure/flow. If there mantel is blowing some.. That’s fine too.. Clams will move on their own (4” and below sizes) if there not happy. The 4” and above will pretty much stay put and are very hardy.. It takes a lot to make the larger ones upset (This DOES NOT include the French Polynesian/ Tahitian Clams). We will not bring in or offer these types of clams to our customers.

“If you have a mixture of SPS, LPS, clams, etc. do you keep flow at the maximum of all of them (like SPS), and does that negatively affect anything?”

No it doesn't effect anything. We still have to plan the placment of everything.

There is a difference/types of flow..

1) Processing water

2)Just blowing water around.

We generally Process 30x+ gph. This is the water flowing into the tank from a sump or filtration source. Then back to the filtration area.. This is water processing.

Then we have water blowing around. This is CL’s, Power heads or pumps of some sort. These are for water flow. Nothing more and nothing less. These can be another 30x+gph or so more. If we can’t get enough turnover with just the main filtration pump. We will add a CL on to the system. The main reason for this is the tanks/customers that we deal for require a CLEAN set up. They and we do not like to see any pumps in the tank.

So, just those two types of water flows work out to be 60x+ gph.

There was a statement about losing head pressure on CL’s. This is really not an issue. CL’s are just for water movement. The intakes and outlets are generally under the waterline. It’s very similar to syphoning water from a tank. Once started, you can take the end of that hose pretty much anywhere you like with no ill effect. You can put bends, corners, go up with it, go down with the end and not much change (As long as it’s under the waterline). Now, put a high power pump on the lowest part of the hose and see what happens. You will not lose much. You want two feeds for every pump. Why? For one, if your hand gets near it. You’ll be able to get your hand off and that goes for fish and anything else. You want to feed the pump with as much water as possible. On the outlet side of the pump. Try not to spread the flow out to much. Say we have 6000 gph pump and we want three nozzles or outlets. Just do the math. On the best day you are at 2000 gph per nozzle or outlet. With the friction and bends you will be more around 1800 or 1900 per outlet or so. It’s really not much. Then, let’s do a four nozzles or outlets system. Now, we are at 1500 gph on the best day. We try to keep the outlets to a max of 1 or 2 per pump for this reason. Now, we do have some high flow, high head pumps that can blow those figures out. But, we are talking high wattages too.

Heat issue with CL’s? This is really not what we find. The pumps motor is the main heat source. The only thing that would be touching the water to produce heat is friction. But, I really don’t care about friction. I need water flow and this is how we do it.

“You can try to hide things from the flow, but that can be difficult while trying to keep high PAR.”

I like this question.. Yes, even though there is 30x+ gph of processing water flow in a tank. We will still have some dead areas. Here is a video explaining how an external overflow works. You might need to watch it a couple of times to see how the water is flowing and see some plumbing debris on the bottom of the tank just sit there.. Why is it sitting there with this much flow? The customer wanted to use very fine substrate, so we put the outlets at a higher point (6-8”) from the bottom of the tank. This is a 67 gal with 3600 gph of processing water. So we are talking a 67 gal tank with a 50-53x gph Processing Rate. You will see the water comes in at 6-8” from the bottom back wall on two outlets and flows forward to the front wall.. Hits the front wall and flows up and back to the overflow. It’s a rolling motion. Even though we have 50-53x gph Processing Rate. The surface of the water is pretty calm. To get the high PAR values with some shimmer effect. The top half of the tank is pretty much striped off to the overflow. If we want to add more water flow. We sure can by adding a CL system. Btw, this tank is 36”x18”x24”.

We actually just plumbed a 180 gal. 96”x24”x18” clam tank. This tank has an 96”x6”x12” external overflow and running 6000 gph (Hammerhead Gold) of processing flow through it. We have it shut down right now because after plumbing it. We found a small crack in a strait piece of pipe and its sucking in air and putting it in the tank. This tank also has an external Beckett Skimmer that runs around 1200 gph turned down. Just let me know if you want a video of this tank too..

For every 2’ of OUR external teeth. We can run 3000 gph thru the teeth. So if we wanted to, the overflow could handle 12k worth of processing flow. Now, this particular sump can’t handle this amount. But, the tank and external overflow can.

On our 520 Gal. We will be running 12k of processing flow thru this tank and that’s only 23x gph. If we decide to turn this tank in a Reef system. We will be adding a couple of CL systems. Probably the Dolphin commercial series 8k+ gph pumps.

Hope this all helps some…

[jaggedfire]

To add another data point:

I am running a 25gallon tall tank with 3 koralias, 750 + 2x 425's. I have a hang on back fuge but the flow is maybe 200gph....almost negligible. As for the flow, not processing, that works to around 70x. With this little tank, you can really see the difference in my birds nest colonies. The one that is blasted by the 750 is longer legged and thin between. The others have fatter branches and stubbier bodies.

The entire tank started as an experiment that has taken off in a good way. As stated before, the best part of this hobby is you get to experiment and learn while enjoying some of the best creatures in this world.

[Entropy]

If you go off the mfg figures I have 40x (just shy of 6000gph) in my 150g, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that being accurate. Running x3 Koralia 1400, x1 Koralia 1200, QuietOne3000. I think I have decided to start finding money for the tank so maybe some new pumps in the future.

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

To add another data point:

I am running a 25gallon tall tank with 3 koralias, 750 + 2x 425's. I have a hang on back fuge but the flow is maybe 200gph....almost negligible. As for the flow, not processing, that works to around 70x. With this little tank, you can really see the difference in my birds nest colonies. The one that is blasted by the 750 is longer legged and thin between. The others have fatter branches and stubbier bodies.

The entire tank started as an experiment that has taken off in a good way. As stated before, the best part of this hobby is you get to experiment and learn while enjoying some of the best creatures in this world.

Sounds like a great little setup.. Keep it going!

Have you found that the tank stays really clean also?

[jaggedfire]

Have you found that the tank stays really clean also?

I am in the process of a big upgrade and most everything will get moved over.....eventually. Since it has quite a bit of sps for it's size, I cant give up on it. I does stay pretty clean, but it took around 4 months for me to learn how to care for the harder corals. This was my first tank and more flow was needed for the amount of rock in the tank.

Thanks for the compliment and sorry to hijack!

[scubasteve92]

lol, no problem!

So we are down in Galveston and I picked up a good sized cluster of barnacle shells. Does anyone have these in there tank? I know they can be used for housing for gobies, but does coral grow well on them? I am considering breaking the cluster in two, one for outside the tank decor. and the smaller half for in my tank. What do you guys think?

Josh

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

This is a 180 Gal. 96"x24"x18" with a 96"x6"x12" External overflow. We are running 6000 gph of processing water thru it using a Reeflo Hammerhead Gold main pump.

You can see the water comes in at two 2" bulkheads and hits the front wall and then flows up to the surface. Then back to the overflow. We have found this to the best way to skim the top half of any tank.. We have never understood why the old style of installing an internal overflow with the return lines blowing detritus away from where we want the detritus to go (Which is down the overflow.).

[jaggedfire]

I cant tell correctly, are the return lines plumbed right off the surface of the bottom of the tank? If so, what kind of pressure loss are you seeing? Flow looks awesome in this tank.

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

I cant tell correctly, are the return lines plumbed right off the surface of the bottom of the tank? If so, what kind of pressure loss are you seeing? Flow looks awesome in this tank.

The returns are 2 - 2" 'ers. They are 4" centered from the bottom of the tank. I dont have a pressure gauge. But, I would highly doubt very much loss. So, I went to RC...

As per the head loss Cal. on RC.. its showingTotal losses are 4.89 feet of head pressure, or 2.11 PSI. with a flow rate of 5615 GPH.

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

Here is the backside of the 180.. We were requested to do this quick video from some forum members..

[jaggedfire]

What happens when the pump is disconnected from power?

Thanks for fielding these questions.

[Get Pumped Saltwater]

This is what happens..

Be advised that this is on a different tank.. you can see and hear how hard it hits.. Also, on this tank you will see there isn't a ball valve.. That's because the returns are a little higher then normal.. And it wasn't no big deal if the water drained down.. It had a huge sump.

The only safe way to plumb this type of systems is to have a check valve.. and on the tank side of the check valve.. put a ball valve. So, you can take the check valve out and clean it once in a while (Every 6 months or so).. The plumbing consists of the following: Sump, pump to a check valve, ball valve, T, to your inlets/returns to tank. Everything is under the water line, ie the check valve.

Thanks for the questions..

[offroadodge]

i agree with GPS, i have a 200G tank with 2x1.5" drains, and 2x1" returns. Running it is a Reeflo Hammerhead and i have it throttled back about 1/2 way on the returns cause i can litterally suck the sump dry cause i cant get enough drainage. In tank i have 2xTunze 6105s and a large wavebox that makes about a 1.5" wave. I need to add another Tunze for lower level flow at the bottom but no biggie, in time.