bimmerzs Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 If this does work, I would think it would be more geared towards administering in a QT setup. Up to this point it was a fact that any effective treatment against this parasite, would also kills inverts, that is why it was difficult to create a reef safe ich treatment. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that most times when someone experiences ich subsiding in a tank using one of these product's, it's more due to the fish's immune system, and not the herb based concoction that is being dosed daily. The best way to prevent ich from entering your DT is by QT'ing all new fish arrival's, There are many thread's on the life cycle of ich, as well as the proven method's and procedure's to follow for getting rid of ich.....once the parasite is actually eradicated from your DT, it will make it come back, so no matter how cold or hot the water gets or how much a fish, it will not get ich simply because it's not in there. There is a lot of data already that point's to this product not being 100% effective so it may be a good idea to actually test the product yourself to make sure you get repeatable result's with using this product. A question on the bacterial medication, it is gram positive or negative and how would this not affect your bio-filter if you put it in your tank?? Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I would never suggest to use this product instead of qting fish. I think this medicated food is a crutch to allow your fishes health to improve enough to fight off the parasite on their own. I don't think it will ever completely rid a tank of ich and the manufacturer doesn't claim that. As with any fish that survives an ich outbreak in a DT it's the fishes health that prevails and allows its own defenses to fight off the parasite, this food should improve their health and give them a better fighting chance. You say there is a lot of data that suggests that it doesn't work 100% of the time, this may be true but I have never seen it. I'm not sure that we're talking about the same product since you call it an herb concotion, its active ingredient is actually phamacutical grade medication, chloroquine phosphate (not an herb). The company was created by a doctor and he is following the recipe that sea world uses so this isn't something brand new to the industry. I've done hours and hours of research and Mark C is the first person to ever speak negatively about the food saying that a breeder he knew it tried it and it didn't work. What data are you talking about? If you found something that I didn't I would like to read about it please. I'm testing the product myself but I also want other people to test it too, that is the purpose of this thread. Please note the theme of the thread, and the question marks, I make no claims that it works but I want to find out, that was the purpose. So I guess we're in agreement there, because testing it is exactly my plan. Again, I'd never recommend not quarantining fish. But if this is effective on any level it can help with those newcomers that do come down with ich. The anti bacteria food I would assume has medication in it for both but I really haven't looked in to it yet, I will though. The food does not have enough medication in to effect the entire tank, I do know that. The amount that it would take to affect an entire tank is far more than what would be mixed in the food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Could you add a turbo snail, hermit crab and a shrimp or two to the tanks that you're feeding the heaviest with this food? It would bring me (and probably others) piece of mind that it won't kill my ornamental (and expensive) inverts. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I was told that it would not harm inverts, I am a little skeptical though. i would have to see this for myself before I could get behind that. I'm feeding a 300 gallon tank with the anti parasite food, it has 10 or so large hermit crabs and about 50 mini hermits. i will know soon enough if it kills them or not, its the only food I will be feeding the tank moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymaster007 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Our club here in socal is interested in this but cannot find anyone who can ship it out to us, would you be willing to? Right now we would need about 7-10x packs. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I have been feeding the anti parasite and dewormer both to fish in my quarintine tanks. I have a bunch of Bar Gobies in the tank and have not lost any yet, usually I expect at least 2 or 3 out of a large group so I take that as a good sign but it will take several batches for me to be real positive. It looks like it has killed several large bristleworms in one tank (or I don't see them anymore but I haven't turned over rocks [i know some people would see that as a plus but I like them as scavengers]). There are brittle stars and short spine purple urchins and a coral banded shrimp in the same tank and they are still fine after 2 weeks. Additionally there are large featherdusters in a second tank on the same system that have been unaffected so the medication does not seem to be getting into the water at levels high enough to hurt them. I have not tried actually dropping the medicated food in with the featherdusters to see how it would affect them if some of the food lands on them so in a display tank it may harm featherdusters. I run UV sterilizers so it's hard to say how the stuff works on ich but I would still use it during QT as a secondary treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerfish Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I've been using this food in one of my display tanks because of my bannerfish that has been having ich probs lately. i think its been about a week now, feeding the fish between 1-4 times a day, only this fish food. i had my bannerfish in a qt tank, feed him the food for a few days, then put him in the dt to see if he would get the ich. he did, as i expected. i will know within a few weeks if the food will allow him to fight it off do he can stay in there. the only other fish that has shown some spots is the kole tang,but all if them act normally and eat well. i have a fire shrimp, 3 emerald crabs, a come of Scarlett reef crabs, and a few red leg hermits, a couple of nasarius snails, some regular snails that clean the glass, a dwarf conch, a fighting conch, and a sand sifting starfish, I'd the starfish counts... so far no deaths. as far as coral goes, there's a bunch of sps frags, a crocea clam, various leathers, branching hydnophora, a pectenia a chalice. nine of the corals seem affected, except the chalice which has suddenly stated to look bad since yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerfish Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 sorry for the typos, its really difficult to type longer messages on the phone...still cant use this site on the computer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Our club here in socal is interested in this but cannot find anyone who can ship it out to us, would you be willing to? Right now we would need about 7-10x packs. Thanks pmed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 . as far as coral goes, there's a bunch of sps frags, a crocea clam, various leathers, branching hydnophora, a pectenia a chalice. nine of the corals seem affected, except the chalice which has suddenly stated to look bad since yesterday. Do you mean 9 corals seem unaffected except for the chalice? Thank you for keeping us posted! I'm really curious what will turn out with the bannerfish. Did you notice that you are supposed to let the food thaw on it own (not in water) and then feed? Also you aren't supposed to hold the frozen food underwater in the tank and let it thaw either (which is how I was doing it lol). Dr g told me that to overdose a fish is almost impossible because the fish isn't capable of eating enough of it. He also told me that it could be fed everyday, several times a day, and all the fish can eat in 3 minutes. On the package it says to feed every other day and only what they can eat in 1 minute. I'm not sure why the directions don't just say that. Maybe it isn't necessary to feed it that often, not sure, I should have asked! I'll find out next time I talk to him. Timfish I'm with you, that's encouraging but I need more proof. So all my hermits have been eating the leftovers and are still alive.....HOWEVER these are some bada** hermits. They are living in a 5 ppm copper dose and eating this medicated food, seem to be doing just fine! I scooped these up from the beach in puerto rico, tough mofo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerfish Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I didnt even notice that typo, thanks for pointing it out Stephen. the one chalice is the only coral that looks bad right now, i noticed it yesterday. im debating on taking it out....its the one i like alot. i have another one that doesnt grow or do anything but sit there, that one looks normal. its previous owner had it for about 2 years and he said it never grew for him either. Anyway, my kole tang that refused to eat this food finally started eating it about 2-3 days ago, he has only shown a few spots, definitely not near enough to affect his eating habits or behavior. THe fish will eat it, but i can tell its not their favorite food. I have a little plastic cup that i use to thaw out fish food for this tank only, i put a small chunk of it in there and let it thaw at room temp. it usually takes about 10-15 mins? i have noticed that if i add a couple of drops of the garlic supplement to the food right before i feed it to the fish, they eat it quicker, and im assuming before the meds wash off of the food in the tank water. wihtout it, i have to feed the tank and walk away because the bannerfish is stubborn and begs for something else LOL. although he did definitely show ich spots, it seems like it was not that bad of an infestation. Looks like they have all dropped off for now. Lets see what happens in the next week or two, and beyond. if he gets totally infested ill have to pull him out and figure something else out. Im not sure what else to do since the rest of the fish are able to ward off this evil parasite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I haven't officially started a real feeding regiment yet, but the couple of times I did try this food out I had trouble with it...that is, once it's defrosted and I try to put it in the tank, it pretty much disintegrates immediately. There's not any real form to it, so a lot of it just doesn't get eaten. I'll start the regiment tonight (rabbitfish now showing ich spots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 I haven't officially started a real feeding regiment yet, but the couple of times I did try this food out I had trouble with it...that is, once it's defrosted and I try to put it in the tank, it pretty much disintegrates immediately. There's not any real form to it, so a lot of it just doesn't get eaten. I'll start the regiment tonight (rabbitfish now showing ich spots). Kevin if I put mine near a powerhead it breaks up in to some finer pieces too, you might try putting it in a lower flow area (if you aren't already). If I drop the food in the tank it will stay togther almost completely intact until it gets in to the flow of my powerheads, then it breaks up in to small pieces. This works for me since I have small fish in there that eat it. When I feed my display tank though with larger fish I turn the powerheads to "feed" mode and just drop in the globs. Almost all of it is eaten by the large fish this way. I think that turning off the power heads during feeding is important so that little is wasted/uneaten and little pieces aren't blown all around the tank allowing it to get in to corals. Bannerfish I agree, my fish don't love it but they will eat it. I haven't put garlic on it yet but that's a good idea, I think that I'll start doing that. I'm glad to hear things are going OK at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinB Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Thanks Stephen, I'll try that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Mendez WTR Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Lost a tang Saturday and a clown today. Wth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Lost a tang Saturday and a clown today. Wth Ich right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Mendez WTR Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerfish Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 my husband just asked me this question and i realized i didn't know the answer, I'll ask it here in public in case anyone else is skimmerless. does the medicine that's in this food need to be skimmed out? he also informed me that one I'd my tiny Vanderbilt damsels was completely covered in the ich days ago. i never saw it myself but i haven't seen any spots on either of those fish at all. I'm anxious to see what happens with this food for sure! i know people in my area that have trouble with it sometimes, to the point that i have even brought home their fish to quarantine at my house for 2 months! it sure wild be nice to have them use the food instead of my qt tank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Monnat Jr Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Lost a tang Saturday and a clown today. Wth Aren't clowns less susceptible to ICH? Did it show spots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I dont think it needs to be skimmed out, it breaks down over 24 hours with oxygen or something like that. wait for Hydro to verify though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 It's photo sensitive and what's not eaten breaks down quickly. Here is some good info about chloroquine phospate. http://www.saltcorner.com/Letters/showexchange.php?exchangeID=179 Clownfish can get ich no doubt, they are tough fish though being from the damsel family so they can usually pull through with treatment. Clownfish are the only fish I have ever seen recover from laying on their sides at the bottom of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All WYSIWYG Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yes? I knew why but no one else reading this does, I wanted you to tell people what happened. You bought a powder brown from a LFS, I warned you that it would probably break out with ich soon and unfortunately it did. Then you took the fish back to the store and they treated in copper for only 3 days, I told you that wasn't going to be long enough that it would break out with ich again soon and unfortunately it did. After this you tried the food but I think it was probably too late for the tang? Was it eating the medicated food? Was the clownfish eating the medicated food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Mendez WTR Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The second clownfish started eating the food and it cleared him up, the other two did not get it in time. Sorry for the confusion, just witnessed the food work so I'm sold and all the fish love it including my longnosehawk who is the pickiest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The second clownfish started eating the food and it cleared him up, the other two did not get it in time. Sorry for the confusion, just witnessed the food work so I'm sold and all the fish love it including my longnosehawk who is the pickiest you sure it didn't just fall off as part of its life cycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerfish Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 thanks for the link, interesting read! do you think it would help if i lowered the lights? i run strong leds at full power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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