Timfish Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thought I'd post this experience of mine as I'm sure it is a frustration we have all shared. For starters here's links to 2 previous threads of a similar vein: http://www.austinree...-up-on-a-coral/ http://www.austinree...e-coral-deaths/ The picture is of two sibling clone Fungia polyps (plate corals) that both budded from the same location on a piece of live rock and grew in this tank. Both have been in this same location since they broke off the place they budded from. The one that died was about 18 months older than the one that survived. As you can see a couple of dozen new daughter polyps have budded off the skeleton of the one that died. They first showed up about 7-9 weeks after the death of the parent polyp (parent died November, 2010). It is important to note that even though there is a dramatic difference in size, all the new polyps were about the same size, about a 1/16", when they were first noticed. Two obvious questions this raises are: One; Why did one die in the first place when the two sibling clones were raised and maintained under virtually identical conditions. Second; why the difference in growth rates of the new polyps when they are essentially the same age and growing in the same conditions (if we go by volume I'd guess a 10X to 20X factor between smallest and largest). Anyway, if any of you are annoyed and worried because there's no explanation for why a coral died on you, don't beat yourself up, it may very well not be anything wrong with what you're doing, and, you're in good company (I think ). (For those of you who are interested in this stuff the polyp on the right is actually a siamese twin with two mouths giving it the unusual folded look for a plate coral.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Interesting, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inland Reef Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Another lesson is that death is not always final in the saltwater world. Similar thing happen with a neon orange fungia of mine. It died & withered away to bare skeleton.. I just left it on the sand bed, a brittle star eventually flipped it over, and I never gave it another thought. Several months later, 4 babies budded off the side & are slowly growing. I've been meaning to cut or break up the skeleton to let them develop on their own. I don't have any experience with letting several individual fungia grow off one common base. All the fungias I've ever seen or owned have been their own individual. I've had similar experiences with softies, LPS, & SPS. So don't ever give up on em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inland Reef Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 BTW, those plates are very cool looking. Congrats. From death, came several new lives!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Hmm very interesting, maybe I won't get rid of the acan that looks like it's toast. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneroller Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I would think of it as a life history strategy to deal with hostile conditions; they fall, get crushed, broken up and beat up. Low and behold, more polyps emerge. Fungia (and other plates) are successful due to their ability to do just what you have documented and are well known for it. In your tank, it may have been that conditions were so good that the best strategy was to divide up and exploit the resources. just guessing... Why individual polyps may be larger than others? Initial conditions (e.g. more underlying tissue) may have been different giving some a head start, of course imperceptible to you and me. Another factor may be the slight differences in microhabitat conditions leading to faster growth in some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 . . . 4 babies budded off the side & are slowly growing. I've been meaning to cut or break up the skeleton to let them develop on their own. I don't have any experience with letting several individual fungia grow off one common base. . . Inland, don't know if this helps but the spot on the liverock where mine initially started to bud off did not have a mushroom attached and in fact it the tank was about a year old when I noticed the first one. The growth rates have been slow for me as well, taking about 10 to 14 months to get to about 1 1/2" dia when they break off. The first one I was gently lifting under the edge once or twice a month for a while to see if I could break it off but always felt pretty firmly attached. That it detached by itself gives me the suspicion (I have no way of proving) the polyps may have some mechanism for detaching on their own or it may just be deteriation of the skeleton at the point of attachment as it grows. The big problem is at that size I've lost a couple in the rock work when they detached. When one drops off it takes one to two months for a new bud to be visible. As far as cutting up the old skeleton to give them room it seems like a good idea to me if it's easy to do without destroying a polyp. The reason I didn't do it with mine is there were so many buds I would probably destroy a third just cutting it up, then be working with small pieces and there would still be a lot of pieces with multiple polyps crowding each other. So I took the lazy way out and decided to just watch them and see how they dealt with it. And I'll be interested in swapping polyps in about 8 - 12 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I would think of it as a life history strategy to deal with hostile conditions; they fall, get crushed, broken up and beat up. Low and behold, more polyps emerge. Fungia (and other plates) are successful due to their ability to do just what you have documented and are well known for it. In your tank, it may have been that conditions were so good that the best strategy was to divide up and exploit the resources. just guessing... I do a lot of guessing too, there's not much I know for sure. This does raise the question I might have better success keeping them separated. Guess I'll need to set up more tanks to try different strategies Why individual polyps may be larger than others? Initial conditions (e.g. more underlying tissue) may have been different giving some a head start, of course imperceptible to you and me. Another factor may be the slight differences in microhabitat conditions leading to faster growth in some. Why, why, why! This is what still keeps me fascinated after 24 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman926 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I will take a frag when ready! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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