Mindflux Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I got to thinking about how any mixed bed DI resin should work to get 0 TDS output from a BFS/BRS type RODI system. http://www.windows101.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1465 This is 47 pounds for $115 dollars, yes it's not color changing but those of us with TDS meters that may not be all that important. $2.40 a pound! I know folks who use this resin for "spotless" car washes, heck they even recharge it (see below) Compare this to 7.5 pounds of resin from BRS (non color changing) for $54.99. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/nuclear-grade-di-resin-1-5-gallons-7-5-pounds.html That's $7.33 a pound! Has anyone used resins not supplied by a LFS/Fish specialty shop? Even further, does anyone here recharge their own resin? Sure you have to separate it, but you can do that via a Acid or Lye bath. The Cation (if I remember right) will float on top of the Anion layer and you can separate them that way. More on recharging resin here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-09/nftt/index.php http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144161&highlight=resin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) the issue with buying a lot and only using a little is that the resin will react with the CO2 in the air. Therefore, unless you vacuum seal it after every time you open the bag, in time the resin will be worthless. BRS talks about this fact in the fine print on that page: "The bags are resalable via a featured zip-loc. Keep in mind this won't be as good as the original seal so we recommend them only for reefers who need a high volume of DI Resin. Otherwise purchase the single refill packs for optimal freshness up to two years." I'd rather spend $18 a year (how often I go through DI resin with my 90G and 34G tanks) vs. paying $115 and having most of it be worthless. Edited May 3, 2011 by mcallahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 the issue with buying a lot and only using a little is that the resin will react with the CO2 in the air. Therefore, unless you vacuum seal it after every time you open the bag, in time the resin will be worthless. BRS talks about this fact in the fine print on that page: "The bags are resalable via a featured zip-loc. Keep in mind this won't be as good as the original seal so we recommend them only for reefers who need a high volume of DI Resin. Otherwise purchase the single refill packs for optimal freshness up to two years." I'd rather spend $18 a year (how often I go through DI resin with my 90G and 34G tanks) vs. paying $115 and having most of it be worthless. I don't know that it would be too hard to split up 47 pounds of DI Resin across several reefers if we could coordinate. Perhaps if this isn't real feasible recharging resin is. As far as your DI consumption, that's pretty low. I made roughly 50 gallons of RODI water and ate through about 1/4 of one of my resin chambers feeding 2-4PPM into it. Another member down the road made 125 gallons (or there about) and chewed up half of a resin chamber at 12PPM into it. At his rate he'll be buying resin once a month. How do they prevent resin from going bad sitting on the shelf in pre-made units? Furthermore how do *I* keep my resin from going bad between uses, the DI chambers are not always filled with liquid and I remove my inlet line between uses so I can prevent TDS Creep with next use. (I would assume that air would get in the murlok lines, though I guess they are double-oringed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I made 110g of RODI and blew through the entire first resin chamber. I talked to BRS about it and was told my CO2 levels in the water are probably through the roof. I sent them some numbers from tests on tap water and they are going to let me know my options. They there are things I could do to lower it but it is expensive. They told me it is just cheaper and easier to buy resin. Going through resin that quick, I would be up for buying in bulk. I have a vacuum sealer also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 I made 110g of RODI and blew through the entire first resin chamber. I talked to BRS about it and was told my CO2 levels in the water are probably through the roof. I sent them some numbers from tests on tap water and they are going to let me know my options. They there are things I could do to lower it but it is expensive. They told me it is just cheaper and easier to buy resin. Going through resin that quick, I would be up for buying in bulk. I have a vacuum sealer also. That'd be a ton of CO2. Your tap water would have to be carbonated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 here is the response i got from BRS. I know from having my water tested before my hardness is around 560PPM. "There lies the problem then. Assuming 300ppm hardness and a pH of 7.5, over 50% of the consumption of your DI resin is going to be from CO2. Its even worse if your alkalinity is actually over 300. There are overly complex methods of removing co2, such as "co2 degassing towers" however most of our customers find that it's just a lot easier and cheaper to order extra DI resin then to build some sort of contraption to remove it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 here is the response i got from BRS. I know from having my water tested before my hardness is around 560PPM. "There lies the problem then. Assuming 300ppm hardness and a pH of 7.5, over 50% of the consumption of your DI resin is going to be from CO2. Its even worse if your alkalinity is actually over 300. There are overly complex methods of removing co2, such as "co2 degassing towers" however most of our customers find that it's just a lot easier and cheaper to order extra DI resin then to build some sort of contraption to remove it." Sounds like you ought to buy extra resin and look into recharging the Cation/Anion portions with Lye and Muriatic Acid. It'll be cheaper in the long run for you to rotate your resin out. Each 10" tube holds 1.25 lbs of resin, so if you kept 5 or 6 pounds on hand (including what you have) and recharge one set as you are using the other set it probably wouldn't be over tedious depending on how often that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhart032 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sounds to me like they as giving you and excuse as to why they should not have to replace faulty resin. just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 i do not think they are trying to sell me... BRS could have told me to buy a booster pump or a number of other things just to get me to spend my money. I have bought a lot from BRS and that is not the way they do business. There has been more than once when I contacted them with a question they actually down sold me on something. I have been researching this. As best I can tell my RO has 25 PPM CO2 using the formula CO2 = 3.0 * KH * 10^(7.00 - pH) I have extremely hard water where I live, incoming water to the water softener is 560 hardness. I used the calculator from http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/CO2DIDepletion.php to see that 62.79% of the DI I am losing is due to CO2. My options are to build a CO2 degassing chamber which I do not think would be all the hard to do, but would just be a PITA and an addtl step or buy more resin. I am going to buy more resin for now while I research options for degassing the CO2. Before I take the leap to CO2 degas I am going to do a couple other things to see if it has any effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 What impact does the softener have, if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I am not sure to be honest, but that is one thing I intend on testing. Also, I got some numbers confused on my earlier post. My hardness is 16 and TDS is 565 pre softerner and hardness 2 and 265 TDS post softener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I am not sure to be honest, but that is one thing I intend on testing. Also, I got some numbers confused on my earlier post. My hardness is 16 and TDS is 565 pre softerner and hardness 2 and 265 TDS post softener. just for reference: Since my softener was a retrofit after the house was built, _EVERY_ faucet (internal or external) goes through my softener. Perhaps that's why I'm not seeing the resin use you are. (We're in the same city presumably on the same water supply)... also I'd think water passing through the softener resin bed would act as a pretty good CO2 degasser (just through running through resin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Right now I am using softened water for the RODI system. I am on Manville Water since I am technically in the county with a RR address. The softener is over 10 years old so I am going to change the resin bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Right now I am using softened water for the RODI system. I am on Manville Water since I am technically in the county with a RR address. The softener is over 10 years old so I am going to change the resin bed. Ahh. I used to be on Manville water when I lived in Pflugerville. I don't remember it being all that bad, didn't have a softener either. I used that water for beer brewing for 3 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 it depends on where in Manville's system you are and where the source water is from for that part of the system. I am also in the only part of the system they use chloramine in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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