Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Well, this sucks, but two days ago I started to lose my SPS one by one. At this point approximately half my colonies are gone, with another one beginning to show signs of going. I am experiencing RTN, and in addition, the affected colonies seemed to be creating lots of tan-colored slime before perishing in 24 hours or less. I've lost everything from tiny colonies and frags to mature, happy colonies the size of softballs. I had Aquatek test my water, and the tests came back fine - nitrate was nigh undetectable, no phosphates, slightly low KH which I dosed for upon returning home. They suggested it might be something bacterial, and possibly pathogenic, due to the rapid rate at which this is tearing through my colonies. I'm kind of at a loss as to what should be done, aside from water changes. Does anyone have any suggestions? This may be the last straw for this tank, and if I lose all my SPS, I am considering tearing it down and selling it. With that in mind, I would hate to sell my live rock or livestock to anyone if this might be something that could be contagious.... Should I be worried? If so, I might save my rock, bleach it, dry it and use it to start a new tank as dead rock and seed it with bacteria from a bottle (a la MCallahan). Any suggestions from you pros would be welcome, but at this point, it's breaking my heart and I may throw in the towel.... If my Hawkins Enchinata goes, all bets are off. Tank stats: 150 gallon tank with 75 gallon fuge/sump with LR and chaeto, running over a year, 150+ lbs live rock, 2x250 watt MH with supplemental T5s and PCs, Bubble Magus skimmer (a huge one), Tunze Wavebox plus a pair of Koralias for flow.. Recent changes: added a bubble tip anemone that is nowhere near the SPS and has not gone near them (completely on the other end of the 5-foot tank) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Are you having any temp swings? How old are your mh bulbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJones Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 This sounds like something got into the water or a bulb has a crack and is exposing the pieces to UV. I would start doing huge water changes and load the tank up with carbon and/or polyfilter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Big die offs like this are usually chemistry related. A Bug most likely won't wipe out all your corals at the same time. I'd also suspect ALK swings. I'm convinced ALK swings are the #1 killer of SPS corals. Start monitoring your ALK throughout the day and see what you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks for the tips. I will check my bulbs for cracks and check my alk. The MH bulbs are less than six months old Phoenix 14K, and no unusual temp swings - it stays pretty stable, it's in my bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Last night my Tri-color acro colony was showing signs of being the next to go. I removed it from the tank, clipped the affected branches, and did a 15-min Lugol's dip. So far, it seems to have halted the progression of the RTN (fingers crossed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 OK, I just tested my KH and it was at 9... I think (the color went from blue to green on drop 8, and to true yellow on drop 9. Does that mean 8 or 9?). I will test again when I get home from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 8 or 9 is fine. Are you running carbon? Hopefully you are, sounds like something needs to be pulled out of the water. Do you have kids? Could someone have put something in the tank that you aren't aware of? I'm thinking heavy metal posining or leaked electricity. Do you have a heater that could be cracked, maybe a bad powerhead? Do you have a volt meter to check? If so ground out the black lead outside the tank and put the red lead in the tank to see if there is any voltage. BTW Lugols is pretty harsh on corals. If you are trying to remove pests coral rx pro is good and if you are wanting to use an iodine dip for a possible bacteria infection there are dips that use iodine that are less harsh. You did the right thing by cutting off the dying part of the coral. I do this myself, you must leave some live coral on the piece that you cut away to stop the reccesion. I left to go out of town and dimmed my ballast from 400 to 250 watt and had many of my sps having recession starting at the bases. I tried this before and the same thing happended, I wasn't sure then that dimming the lights was the cause but now that its happened again I know for sure. Goes to show you how sensitive they are to lighting changes, or possibly spectrum loss from dimming the lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barderer Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I am surprised no one has suggested this yet but I would clip frags now far away from the RTN zone so you will at least have frags to grow from once this is over. Every time a colony has had RTN and I attempted to "save" it. I would end up loosing the whole colony 9 out of 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I mentioned that above, I always have to leave some of the live coral and cut at least 1/2" above the recession. I usually can save at least some of it, the best thing is to cut colonies in to seperate frags that way some might make it and some don't. I have even taken and chopped frags down it to several small pieces and still glue them on to one frag plug, sometimes some of the pieces still die but some will live on the same plug....as long as they aren't touching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Just got home, and the list of victims now includes a tennis-ball sized colony of cranberry blue-tipped milli. My remaining Monti colonies are also showing signs of RTN, and the tricolor may be as well, though progression is slower. No to the kids and heaters, though unfortunately that's a no on carbon as well. I don't have a media reactor; would passive carbon have any effect? It's possible on the stray current from powerheads, though I haven't noticed anything like that. I don't have access to a volt meter either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Alk is at 8, not much of a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have carbon canisters and a pump if you want to come out and get it. I believe this is your best chance to save whats left, there is some kind of toxin in the water if all of your paramters are correct. Carbon will pull it out of the water. Water changes now are critical IMO, when the corals die they can release more toxins in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 OK, I just tested my KH and it was at 9... I think (the color went from blue to green on drop 8, and to true yellow on drop 9. Does that mean 8 or 9?). I will test again when I get home from work. I always count the drop that turns it from green to yellow. Everyone has suggested what I would do in your situation. Before I pull out a colony to dip it I will use air line to syphon off the "brown jelly" before moving it so it doesn't fall on another colony and spread the infection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. After spending an hour and a half at Aquatek talking to Bruce (and having him talk me down off a ledge that involved tearing my whole tank down and setting fire to everything), I picked up a bucket of carbon and will begin running carbon tonight. In addition, Bruce seemed to think that my problem might be pathogenic dinoflagellates, and suggested dosing hydrogen peroxide to combat this possibility. In any case, if he's wrong he said it shouldn't hurt, and it might help. After this is sorted out (one way or another), I plan on remodeling my tank.... I will be relocating my surviving corals to a temporary tank while I utilize period of prolonged darkness combined with a system of carbon dosing and beneficial bacteria addition to combat nuisance algae that I have never been able to eradicate. I will probably start using the Polyplab system afterward. I also plan on doing some aquascaping (possibly with foam) to create a more open rock structure, and I plan on having many less fish when I restock the second time around. My current fishes will probably be going up for sale over the weekend. From there, who knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 what about COPPER, did anything go hay wire lately (pump,Cord, etc). another person here had the same experience but i dont know they ever truly found the answer, they thought that it may be toxins released fron zoas but not forsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Nope, nothing out of the ordinary except the skimmer going crazy (which is understandable). I also don't have any zoas at all in this tank - it was just a couple of LPS, SPS and the anemone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike M. Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I don't think this will make you feel any better, but I just came through a 6 week period of losing colonies like this. For me, it turned out to mostly be TWO bad alkalinity test kits. Kits were saying my alk was a 8-10 and when I got a Hanna Checker in, found out I was at 3.5. You hear about bad test kits over and over, but its hard to realize it is happening to you when it does. No advice, just condolence. The rate at which you lost colonies suggests chemistry like Mark and Stephen said and based on what happened in my once nice tank, I'd agree. BTW, I had macro photos of the pieces and junk that came off them when I dipped them examined by numerous "experts"(some a Vivid Aquariums), and they ALL agreed that it was not a parasite or pathogen issue. Hang in there, we'll rebuild these tanks! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteorflower Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Sounds like I might need to invest in some electronic test equipment for Round Two... Sorry to hear about your tank as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I don't think this will make you feel any better, but I just came through a 6 week period of losing colonies like this. For me, it turned out to mostly be TWO bad alkalinity test kits. Kits were saying my alk was a 8-10 and when I got a Hanna Checker in, found out I was at 3.5. You hear about bad test kits over and over, but its hard to realize it is happening to you when it does. No advice, just condolence. The rate at which you lost colonies suggests chemistry like Mark and Stephen said and based on what happened in my once nice tank, I'd agree. BTW, I had macro photos of the pieces and junk that came off them when I dipped them examined by numerous "experts"(some a Vivid Aquariums), and they ALL agreed that it was not a parasite or pathogen issue. Hang in there, we'll rebuild these tanks! Mike Mike, what brand are the 2 test kits that you had problems with? Also what hannah meter did you buy to replace them? I think that you are running a Ca reactor. I'm surprised that the kh was able to get that low. After realizing it was low what measures did you take to raise the kh and to maintain it? Just curious, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I don't think this will make you feel any better, but I just came through a 6 week period of losing colonies like this. For me, it turned out to mostly be TWO bad alkalinity test kits. Kits were saying my alk was a 8-10 and when I got a Hanna Checker in, found out I was at 3.5. You hear about bad test kits over and over, but its hard to realize it is happening to you when it does. No advice, just condolence. The rate at which you lost colonies suggests chemistry like Mark and Stephen said and based on what happened in my once nice tank, I'd agree. BTW, I had macro photos of the pieces and junk that came off them when I dipped them examined by numerous "experts"(some a Vivid Aquariums), and they ALL agreed that it was not a parasite or pathogen issue. Hang in there, we'll rebuild these tanks! Mike Mike, what brand are the 2 test kits that you had problems with? Also what hannah meter did you buy to replace them? I think that you are running a Ca reactor. I'm surprised that the kh was able to get that low. After realizing it was low what measures did you take to raise the kh and to maintain it? Just curious, thanks! I can't answer for Mike, but mine got that low too. At the time, I wasn't dosing ALK as I was only relying on the kalk in my ATO. Of course I got lazy and stopped testing for ALK so I didn't notice it was low till my SPS starting talking to me. Now I dose ALK with a BRS 1.1mL/min pump. Issues solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike M. Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I had been using a Tetra and an API alk kit. In addition, I had been having a heck of a time getting the calcium reactor to function reliably so a dip in alk was easy to achieve with the reactor vapor locking so to speak. Anyway, the test kits were telling me my alk was high to the 6.5-7.5 that I was trying to run the tank at so I kept turning the reactor output down. Fed the beast so to speak. I bought on the Hanna Alkalinity checkers that I am on record making fun of in another thread. Oh well, if you can't beat'em, join them! Callahan is still smiling that smug grin about it to this day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike M. Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Oh yeah, so I'm back to running two part with a kalk reactor. At least I know what's going in the tank now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 We just had the same issue with API Alk test kits. API showed 7-8... Hanna checker showed 3-4. Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 We just had the same issue with API Alk test kits. API showed 7-8... Hanna checker showed 3-4. Oops! I think its time I write to API and let them know about these issues and to let them know I'm going to recommend no one use their test kit products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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