Bewildered and Confused Noobie

[Eric Alvarado]

I have owned many fresh water tanks over the years, a 90, couple 55s, 30, and currently only have a 10 for my son. I had a 45 Gallon Flatback Hex salt-water tank in around 1989, but my wife at the time didn’t like it so out it went.

I have since found a better match, and she talked me into getting back into the hobby. But when it comes to salt, I’m a completely ignorant. I have been spending the latter part of the last couple weeks reading up on what I could. So, I saw a decent deal on Craig’s list and I picked a used 55 Gallon TruVu Acrylic tank.

The 55 tank came with an assortment of dry coral, sand, and protein skimmer (replaced the pump on it, seems to be work fine). The tank has a built in wet dry system. (http://www.truvuaquariums.com/maa00055l.html)

So, I think I understand how the system works from the various kind people that have allowed me to bend their ear. It sounds like – minus the lighting – I am good to good for a beginner reef tank. I want the typical clown, nemi combo. I have no idea what other fish I want in the tank. I am happy to setup an environment and work within the confines of my primary choices (this is how I did all my fresh tanks too).

I have a few questions

The tank I received has bio balls in the second chamber, and it is supposed to have DLC canisters in the second chamber. The fish store I am closest too said they can’t get the DLC canisters anymore. Others I’ve chatted with have suggested no one uses the bio-balls anymore, and to use something else in it’s place. I’ve heard lots of ideas, from curlers, to egg crates, to more bio balls, to crushed live rock, but I am at a loss on which way to go. Any advise, as well as were to pick it up would be very helpful.

Lighting – The tank is all acrylic without a hood. The light sits directly on top of the top with a plastic cover that separates it from the tank. It has a couple 30watt bulbs. So I’ve been looking to upgrade the lights. Because of the open setup of this tank, it would need a set of lights that would sit on top of the tank (it would be super ugly to hang lights given the layout of the room). That said, not sure how much lighting I would need. Do I need 48” lighting? 2 bulbs? 4? 6? (tank is 48 x 1 x 17)

I ask this full knowing that – well – the lighting depends on what I am putting into the tank J For this first time around, I don’t mind having lighting the focused on the center of the tank, allowing the edges to be less optimal for corals, anemone, etc.

Any other advice on how to get me moving would be appreciated. I’m pretty patient and expecting a couple months before I expect to add fish. I have added water, and have the salinity set. I know I need live rock (again, not sure how much to get). I live in North Austin.

Thanks

Eric

[Rgwiz11]

Hey Eric, first of all, welcome aboard!

I used to have that exact same tank before we upgraded to the 90g we have now. I'll try to answer a few of your questions based on my own experiences with it.

Bio-balls ~ I would forego the bioballs. When we had them in our tank, they didn't do much of anything. They didn't seem to harm our tank, but I think the space could be used for something more beneficial. I would look for some small pieces of porous rock and throw them into that compartment. I think you'd get better filtratiton that way.

Lighting ~ We had 2 clamp on metal halide lights that I believe were 150W each. I could be mistaken on the wattage though. I do know that we got excellent growth on everything in the tank, but honestly, the colors always seemed washed out. I like our current setup of our T5HO's. You could always add actinics to the 55gallon, but we always found it hard to find space for more stuff.

[Robb in Austin]

First off; Welcome! To the club and back to the hobby.

As you surmised, you need more light. There are many options out there; T5 and metal halide(MH) being the two heavyweights. Each has it's pros/cons, so do lots of reading, look at fixtures in the stores and on line to see what you like, and get the one that you think fits your needs.

I'll echo what RG wrote; ditch the bioballs and add live rock rubble.

For more info look under the "Resources" tab on the top right of the page. Also, check out Mark's "TV" show Mr Saltwatertank.tv.

Last, do lots of research before you buy any livestock, ask lots of questions(even though you will get conflicting answers at times), do more research. Then do some more and then start adding slowly. In the meantime, you can always get rock and water in the tank and get the cycle started.

[Rgwiz11]

Oh, to answer the question about the live rock. We had between 100-125lbs. in our 55 gallon. I've always heard, the more you can fit in, the better. It adds spaces for your bacteria to cultivate, provides shelter for the livestock, and, most importantly, places to mount your frags

[+Hydro]

I'm not sure if this helps or not but you can hang your lights from the ceiling using a very thin cable that can be picked up at Home Depot. I did this before and it looked great. I poked a very small hole (1/4") and ran the 1/8" cable in to the attic where I attached it to one of the rafters using electrical staple. I attached it to the fixture using clips that are made for the 1/8" cable. When I pulled out the fixture you could just barely see the holes in the ceiling. I'm not sure if that would work in your particular situation, just thought I would mention it.

[Eric Alvarado]

Thanks for all the great responses!

Where is the best place to grab crushed live rock in town?

Also, how long after I add the crushed rock should I add the actual live rock?

Thanks everyone !

Eric

[Robb in Austin]

You'll want live rock rubble. I'd call River City, Aquadome, and Aquatek to see what they have and the cost.

The other option is to just throw dead rock rubble in there and let it seed itself. I'd call Prof at Epic Reef as he usually has plenty of rock laying around.

[Derekreefer]

I used to have an Acrylic tank. I found that acrylic retains heat so I would recommend a T5 setup unless you are prepared to buy a chiller....just sayin

[Rgwiz11]

Oh, yeah. Nice call, Derek, on the heat. One of the reasons we upgraded to a 90g was because our tank was sitting at around 82 all the time, and we evaporated about a gallon and a half of water out of it every day

[Eel Keeper]

Oh, yeah. Nice call, Derek, on the heat. One of the reasons we upgraded to a 90g was because our tank was sitting at around 82 all the time, and we evaporated about a gallon and a half of water out of it every day

Yea my 55gal did the same. I too am now at a 90gal. I had 5 65w power compacts (pc)s on my 55gal for lighting. I kept anemones, soft corals, and lps. I stayed away from SPS as I hear halides are best for those. You may want to make a make-shift riser with stuff at home depot to keep the heat down as well as a fan. I raised mine about 9 in off my tank.

[Eric Alvarado]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback.

So I have continued to watch, talk, and read anything and talk to anyone willing to chat with me

I think I have decided to put rubble rock in the 2nd chamber of the filter system. I did have one person recommend leaving it empty, as they said it offered no value. Didn't quite catch the logic, but it boiled down he thought the live rock did the filtering, so there was no need for additional components in the other part of the system where the bio-balls/rubble rock would go. Additionally, dangerous build up can occur over time and create problems. I have no clue J

I now have some decisions to make. I spoke to a few people about the ground floor media, sand vs. crushed coral vs. how deep. It sounded like this one had some debate in the community behind it. The reason it is important to me right now is if I want to make any changes, now is the time.

The tank is currently filled with salt water - a little low on salinity. It has no live rock or rubble rock in it. It has about 1.5" > 2" sand bottom (the tank came with sand, coming from an older generation - we thought deep sand was a good thing.) The basic feedback was that over time, the sand hardens trapping dangerous gasses.

So I was thinking of turning off the filter, then slowly pulling out excess sand to reduce it to a .5 - 1" bottom. Letting it settle for a couple days, then get back to business at trying to get it started. Obviously, another option would be to just empty and save the water – somewhere – and remove the excess sand.

Also, I am a tight wad, and in absolutely no hurry whatsoever. If I can save money somewhere, I'll do that. That said, I have heard you can seed with some live rock and fill the rest with (dead? rock). Over time, that other rock will become live rock. Takes some time, but can save heavily on the pocketbook. Has anyone tried or actively do that? And if so, how long would it take to seed those other rocks?

Lastly, on T5 lighting. How much do I need? Do I need to stretch the lights from end to end (48") or can I get away with a 30" or 36" fixture? Can I get away with 2 bulbs or do I need 4?

Thanks everyone!

Eric

Edited December 8, 2010 by Eric Alvarado

[Derekreefer]

Lastly, on T5 lighting. How much do I need? Do I need to stretch the lights from end to end (48") or can I get away with a 30" or 36" fixture? Can I get away with 2 bulbs or do I need 4?

For the budget conscience like me you can get away with a 4 bulb T5. A 6 bulb'r would be better. I like my AquaticLife T5 fixture. A TEK or ATI may be better but will cost more. I prefer the AquaticLife because of the built in 3 way timer and ONE power cord.

[+Hydro]

You can use a hose and siphon out the sand instead of digging it out, a 3/4" hose works best because it doesn't get clogged as easy. Just pull in some water with the sand to keep it flowing.

[GKarshens]

A 1.5 - 2" sand bed should be no problem in the long run for trapping waste as long as you have the right clean up crew. That is not deep enough to have the dead zones in a deep sand bed that can cause problems down the road. I would leave the sand and invest in Nassarius Snails. They are great cleaners and keep the stand bed stirred to prevent dead zones. I would buy about 15 of them for a tank that size. Make sure to get the Tonga variety. They seem to be much hardier and better in the long run.

[Eric Alvarado]

A 1.5 - 2" sand bed should be no problem in the long run for trapping waste as long as you have the right clean up crew. That is not deep enough to have the dead zones in a deep sand bed that can cause problems down the road. I would leave the sand and invest in Nassarius Snails. They are great cleaners and keep the stand bed stirred to prevent dead zones. I would buy about 15 of them for a tank that size. Make sure to get the Tonga variety. They seem to be much hardier and better in the long run.

awesome, thanks! I do like the look and waves in the sand.

[Derekreefer]

+1 Nassarius snail When you put food in the tank they immediately raise their "periscopes"; then come crashing up from the sand like little tanks and start the search and destroy mission for food.......ok I play to much COD

[Eric Alvarado]

Alright, I am plodding along

Last week, added rubble rock to replace the bio-balls.

I added 60lbs of dry rock from Macro Rocks and 10 lbs of live rock yesterday.

I have purchased lighting, WavePoint HO T5 48" 4x54, temperature is currently at 77 degrees. So far the lights haven't heated it up, but keeping an eye on it. Just added the lights 2 hours ago

I also added a coralife CP1300 pump to move water around.

I know I have a while to wait before that live rock turns into anything useful. so my question is, what to do next? I know I need to cycle the tank - it has been running with the rubble rock for about the last week, tank itself has been running about about 1.5 weeks.

0 amonia, 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, and I have no idea Ph. Our card, if we look at it in the kitchen - looks like 8.2, if we use the fish tank lighting, it looks like 7.8.

So my question is: what are my next steps? Should I a piece of shrimp to get it cycling, or add a fish, or add something to bottom like a crab? (although, I'm not a big fan of those crabs).

Thanks!

[Robb in Austin]

I'd let the live rock you added do it's thing. Check ammonia, nitrites for the next few days and see what happens. Use your kitchen light to read the pH, or sunlight.

I'm not familiar with that brand of lights, but as a general rule T5's dont add heat.

[Koe]

I think I have decided to put rubble rock in the 2nd chamber of the filter system. I did have one person recommend leaving it empty, as they said it offered no value. Didn't quite catch the logic, but it boiled down he thought the live rock did the filtering, so there was no need for additional components in the other part of the system where the bio-balls/rubble rock would go. Additionally, dangerous build up can occur over time and create problems. I have no clue J

Generally the thought I've heard is that the live rock rubble that gets stuck in filters never gets cleaned out and so junk accumulates on it and decays which can cause problems. Combine

that with the fact that if you've got a substantial amount of live rock in your tank already the additional rubble will have a negligible impact.

If you are going to have live rock rubble in the back one suggestion I've heard is keeping it in a mesh bag. That way you can pull the bag out and clean the rock off so that you don't build up waste in the rock.

[Robb in Austin]

If you are going to have live rock rubble in the back one suggestion I've heard is keeping it in a mesh bag. That way you can pull the bag out and clean the rock off so that you don't build up waste in the rock.

That's a good idea.

[Derekreefer]

The wavepoint probadly came with stock bulbs. I would use them for 3-4 months tops then upgrade to ATIs or KZ to get alot more PAR (usable light)

[mFrame]

I think I have decided to put rubble rock in the 2nd chamber of the filter system. I did have one person recommend leaving it empty, as they said it offered no value. Didn't quite catch the logic, but it boiled down he thought the live rock did the filtering, so there was no need for additional components in the other part of the system where the bio-balls/rubble rock would go. Additionally, dangerous build up can occur over time and create problems. I have no clue J

Generally the thought I've heard is that the live rock rubble that gets stuck in filters never gets cleaned out and so junk accumulates on it and decays which can cause problems. Combine

that with the fact that if you've got a substantial amount of live rock in your tank already the additional rubble will have a negligible impact.

If you are going to have live rock rubble in the back one suggestion I've heard is keeping it in a mesh bag. That way you can pull the bag out and clean the rock off so that you don't build up waste in the rock.

It also depends on what you're using it for. If you're trying to cultivate pods for a mandarin or over fish that like live food, it serves as a great protected refuge that slowly "leaks" the pods into the tank for consumption. Your live rock in the tank generally gets picked over pretty well.

[Eric Alvarado]

Again, thank you to everyone who has sent me PMs and posted on the board. Love having expert help

I did just introduce a tank bred clownfish and 8 narrsaris snails. Plan on picking up more.

So, right now my chemistry reads as such:

0 nitrites

8.4 PH

1.5 ish ammonia

5 ppm nitrates

Getting brown algae growing on everything. Assume it is diatom, but some of the live rocks I got from the LFS seem to be morphing as well. Not very surprised, but wanted to get some expert eyes to let me know if I should be concerned. The algae peels off in sheets when I wipe it off the glass. I have read that some people recommend reducing the light (I am wondering if this 4x54 T5 lighting is TOO bright) and that for a week or so I should either leave the lights off or reduce lighting.

Thanks!

Eric

[Robb in Austin]

Patience is what you need now.

Let the tank run and the diatoms should go away. You then might run into other nuisance algae.

That 1 clown wont need to be fed much, so go easy on the food which will help.

[mFrame]

Yep, the ammonia indicates you're still cycling. Hold off on adding any more fish or life until your cycle completes and you'll be set to move on later.