connecting tanks

[wayneb]

Have a question which I can't find any answers to on the various reference sites.

Have 3 tanks of similar width and depth: 48"x13"x20" 55g, 30"x13"x20" 29 gal and 14"x13"x16" 20gal

that I was thinking of setting up as frag, holding and specialty tanks (SH), etc. (but not as quarantine tank).

I also have a 30gal already plumbed as a fuge/sump.

I am looking for both pro and con inputs and how-to ideas on daisy-chaining the 3 tanks together and using

the one sump with skimmer for all 3. My idea is to have in-tank overflow boxes (trying to avoid the probs

that people seem to have with HOB equipment).

Any feedback would be appreciated.

thanks,

wayneb

[chrisfowler99]

Pros:

• One sump
• One set of equipment like skimmers, controllers, reactors, etc.
• One water change
• Larger water volume helps with stability

Cons:

• What happens to one happens to all. If you get an infection in one, they all have it. No moving stuff from one tank to another to avoid a problem.
• Complicated setup
• Flooding possibility. Your sump needs to be able to hold the water volume when the power is cut off and all three tanks drain somewhat

Off the top of my head...there are likely more of each.

[+dapettit]

You could bulkhead them together,if you don't mind your inhabitants moving from tank to tank. Can't you control the flooding by drilling a small hole in the over flow tube to stop the syphon? My knowledge of overflow tubes is very limited.

I do have to agree with Con #1 & 2.

[chrisfowler99]

You could bulkhead them together,if you don't mind your inhabitants moving from tank to tank. Can't you control the flooding by drilling a small hole in the over flow tube to stop the syphon? My knowledge of overflow tubes is very limited.

I do have to agree with Con #1 & 2.

You're going to have some level of syphoning, usually from the return. A hole drilled can help keep it to a minimum, but there's always a certain amount of backflow to make sure you cover.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

How are you going to set the tanks up in relation to each other?

This is one time I would not recommend a hang on overflow for sure. Its hard to the point of maybe being impossible to flood proof it simply because you can't control for failure when there are so many random variables. On one tank with one HOB you can eliminate the risk of flooding, I couldn't work it out to prevent floods when using one on a second tank (fuge to sump in my case, I gave up and I'm having a new bigger fuge drilled)

Sounds like you are already wanting to avoid HOB but I thought I'd go ahead and reinforce the idea.

Why don't you check out the plumbing at some of the LFSs to see how they are doing things. Maybe you could mod and apply similar ideas. Fishy Business has one of the nicest looking sales tanks set ups I've seen. I had to ask if the tanks were chained together because they didn't appear to be.

On returns, drill the siphon break hole above the water line. Really limits back flow to the sump.

[NonSequitur]

Liz had a good suggestion with checking with various LFS to see how they do it, and tank positioning has a role as well.. If you wanted to stack one above another above your sump (picture how RCA does it) you would only have to pump water to the top (keep pump head vs flow rate in mind) and let it flow from the top tank to the bottom, then to the sump.

I went a different way with my setup: My 55g, 12g, and 15g fuge are all at approximately the same height, and all overflow individually into my 37g rubbermaid sump (probably going to upgrade this to a larger livestock tank eventually), with a common pump (mag 5) feeding them all. A combination of multiple siphon break holes and plenty of headspace in the sump allow for any backflow when the power is cut (tested this extensively), and valves on each return line let me adjust the amount of flow going to each tank. It took a bit of tweaking to make it all work smoothly, but now that it's dialed in I wish I had done it sooner.

In my opinion the single return pump and oversized sump are the keys to doing something like this safely. There's one source of uphill movement, everything else is gravity, so with that pump stopped the only movement to be concerned about will be water flowing back into the sump. This is easy to handle with a sufficiently oversized sump (or low enough normal water level) and enough properly placed siphon break holes in return lines. Also, make sure you keep this backflow in mind when positioning and adjusting your skimmer, depending on the size of your sump you could see a significant change in water level when the return pump stops, causing your skimmer to overflow if it's still running.

You definitely have the right idea staying away from HOB overflows, though.. mine are a constant source of concern (I had to take my fuge offline last night to clear the accumulated air from it's U tube). My next project will probably be putting together a latching relay and some water sensing contacts to shut the return pump and skimmer down in case of water on the floor.

[Timfish]

I have to agree with you Wayne using an internal overflow is the better way to go. This also eliminates the need to have your tanks set with the tops level with each other. Your 30 gal is certainly large enough for the 100 gallon system you're designing. I'm of two minds about using one pump or 3 pumps. If you use one pump like Nonsequitur pointed out it will take some tweeking. With 3 valves, one on each tank, each time one is adjusted the flow on the other two is affected and the flow to each tank is to a certain degree a guess. Using three pumps it's simpler determining water flow to each tank. If you set up the tanks at different levels I would think it's better having each drain line seperate to the sump tank. If you decide to connect them together I would make sure the drain lines are tied together below the lowest tank.

[wayneb]

Thanks all.

wayneb

[Timfish]

Didn't think of this in my previous post but it should be obvious. If you go with a single pump to figure flow in each tank time how many seconds or minutes it takes to fill a quart or gallon container.

[wayneb]

Have started the build somewhat. At least got a good idea on how I want it. Decided to go with 3 separate return pumps from the sump after talking with Shane, though he did bring up a possible heat problem with

running 3 pumps. Have to look at what pumps are available, size and wattage used (lower wattage=less heat). Plus plan on adjusting pump size to each individual tank, figuring a gph turnover rate at 6-8 times quantity. Like the idea of Hydro's and others on using SPA flex tubing instead of rigid PVC. Still have to investigate more concerning the siphon break holes.

Stand will be along the wall enclosed L shaped shelf type and about 20/22" wide on the long section and 26/28" on the short leg. It will be braced/crossbraced 2x6s and 1/2 plywood skinned (top of course 3/4"). All to be painted dark blue. Height still to be determined although I'm leaning toward 38", as I would like to comprimise between viewing sitting down and being able to work in tank. Lights will be hanging retrofit T-5 fixtures hidden by removable false-front canopies sized for each tank.

Again ideas and feedback welcome.

wayneb

Note: had an idea- raising the sump and drilling a 1" hole in the side about 3" below the top and running a fitting to another holding tank or container directly along side. Would give me a safety margin in case of overflow from power failure. Again would depend on skimmer height. but it could also act as drain for skimmed material. Any feedback?

Edited June 5, 2010 by wayneb

[Timfish]

Note: had an idea- raising the sump and drilling a 1" hole in the side about 3" below the top and running a fitting to another holding tank or container directly along side. Would give me a safety margin in case of overflow from power failure. Again would depend on skimmer height. but it could also act as drain for skimmed material. Any feedback?

First regarding the height of the stand, if you're running three seperate pumps or use syphon breaks the tanks don't have to be the same height or even on the same stand so one could be at eye level sitting down and one could be at eye level standing up.

On you overflow tank for the sump, if both tanks are the same height why not put the hole at the bottom and just make it a dual sump? Increases your surface area and should increase the volume some also.

[wayneb]

Problem is I don't have the space to vary the height of tanks and still have room for the lights.

The room (spare bedroom formally used as my train room) has book shelves and cabinets

in place. The usuable height is about 64" from floor to bottom of lower

shelf.

As far as the 3 return pumps- I'm leaning toward using the RIO Hydroflow pumps-

two of the 6HF with 350gph with a max head ht of 6' and one of the 8HF w/ 550ghp

and max hd ht of 6.5' . Added bonus is that Foster and Smith has a sale going on

for them. The combined wattage is 60w.

wayneb

[wayneb]

Decided to use the sump/fuge that I got when I bought my used 120gal last year. Got it out of storage and found that it was actually two diy acrylic units connected by a 1 1/4" bulkhead fitting. The smallest of the two tanks is 15.5 gal (14.5w x 15"l x 16.5" h) divided equally into two sections by a fish guard baffle across the width of the tank. The other part is 28g (14.5"w x 28"l x 16.5"h) is also divided into two sections, however the largest area is about 2/3 of the tank (fuge?) and has the bulkhead fitting.

If I figured it out right - the input (smallest area of the large tank) flows into the fuge thru bubble trap baffles and out thru the bulkhead fitting to the output pump(s) area with the other part used for top off resevore.

Which brings up questions - Is a single 1 1/4" fitting large enough to handle the input from four aquariums? (Picked up another 30 gal at garage sale and had it drilled)

As there doesn't appear to be a skimmer area, I think I either need to divide the fuge area to allow for one or add a spare 10gal tank between the two units. As I want a large fuge area, I am leaning toward getting the 10g drilled and using it. But again would appreciate any suggestions.

Note have pics, but work computer will not let me access photobucket site. Will add when I get home.

thanks,

wayneb

http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/waynefb/2%20part%20refuge-sump/

Edited July 4, 2010 by wayneb

[Timfish]

A general rule of thumb I use is a bulkhead fitting for 1" pipe will safely drain 1000 gph, for 1 1/4" pipe 1500 gph. With your setup I wouldn't be surprised if the water level on the upstream side to be an inch or more higher than the down stream side. Don't forget to take into account stuff may grow inside your fittings. While I don't feel it's neccessary to do a 'fuge or skimmer when ever I can increase the volume and surface area of a system I do so my vote is for adding the 10 gal. tank.

[+dapettit]

The only problem I see connecting all you tanks to one sump is; any type of problem will effect all the tanks. Wayne, just my 2 cents.

[Timfish]

Hey, I was wondering how your setup is going.

[+dapettit]

Check out his blog update. Very interesting. . .

[wayneb]

Dave, thanks for the Kudos.

I decided to go with "Blog" entires/updates because 1. didn't want to tie up forums with the many questions and ideas I have. 2. It allows me to get my thoughts and ideas in order (I figure if it can make sense to me at 2-3 in the morning, then hopefully it will make sense to the rest of you all at a civilized hour (lol). 3. wanted to reinforce to other newbies (which I consider myself still one and will do so for a long time to come) the 'fact' that everybody preaches - "There are no dumb questions, except those unresearched and/or unasked". 4. finally have been asked many times on the status of the build, an interest by others that is appreciated very much. My Blog allows fellow reefers, newbies, etc. to see for themselves, make comments, ask questions, provide answers to my musings. If anyone and everyone wants to jump in with questions, answers, etc please feel free to do so. Think of it as a newbie chat blog.

To quote one of the reasons I started a Blog in the first place: "Next reason is I feel that this is one way to gather and record my thoughts, ideas, etc., no mater how silly I think they are or dumb they sound to me. That I choose to post them is probably my first silly idea. However the one thing I value most, outside of family, is knowledge. And I don't mean book learning per se, but that gained from practice and repetition, and feedback from others more wiser in the subjects. The comments received can be read, saved, and reread again and again until it sinks in. As I get older the one problem I have in receiving face-to-face advice is that my photocopy mind soon runs out of ink and becomes blurry in a short time."

Dave, thanks again to you and the others who keep this an interesting and fun hobby.

wayneb

[+dapettit]

You are very welcome. How about some pics to go along with your blog?