subsea

I copied this post from my thread on Nano Reef, "Is macro effective at phosphate export?"

Here is a tongue-in-cheek response to organic phosphate: My favorite organic phosphate is peanut butter

Meaning, organic phosphate is just food particles, or dissolved foods. They are eaten/absorbed by the corals. Then the corals produce ammonia/urea, which is the real problem.

Algae does indeed put stuff back into the the water: Mostly glucose. Same stuff you buy and dose (carbs). Amino acids too. And Vitamin C.

About the tomatoes: My understanding is the some of the top-tier garden fertilizers are said to be algae based. I know I through algae on to plants and tree roots sometimes, instead of miracle gro.

Anyway, the amount of phosphate (inorganic, which is what matters) that is removed by algae will be proportional to the photosynthesis of the algae, which will be proportional to: Light, flow, and attachment. Attachment keeps the algae in place so the strong from can pass over it and not carry it away. This determines how fast it grows, which determines how fast phosphate is removed from the water.

My response was this:

Yes, peanut butter is organic phosphate. So is detritus. I will stick with the peanut butter and let the fish and janitors eat the detritus.

I use kelp concentrate that I purchase from Home Depot garden center. I add nutrients to all of my growout systems. It has all major and minor nutrients except phosphate. Recently, after Ward Lab showed me that phosphate was below .01 ppm, I used Miracle Grow Bloom Buster to fertilize my reef tank.

Some years back, I read a graduate thesis from University of Hawaii, that indicated the ratio between nitrogen and phosphate uptake was 100:1. With fast growing Caulerpa, it was 20:1. This same caulerpa is the first one to go sexual.

The things which algae puts back into the water sounds like pluses to me. Can you shed some light on lateral line as a symptom and how can Tangs grazing on algae correct the problem?

Patrick

PS. Thank you for the tongue and cheek. I needed a smile to start the day.

There are no dumb questions here. "The only dumb thing would be to not ask the question."

Philosophy 101

As I understand your flow path, both mp40 are flowing across top of tank to the opposite side. With little rock or obstructions, you should get a continuous vertical loop current. I especially like the vertical loop current because it is closed loop. The physics of "inertia of mass" will amplify the current. More bang for the buck. You can verify this with addition of flake food. Does this flow path push surface water toward your return surface skimmer weir? This is very important to remove surface scum.

Patrick

This reading was at the end of the photoperiod and fell steadily once the lights started to dim. Here's the Apex graph. The alk and Ca at that same time were measured to be 6.7 and 410. Would a high level of inorganic phosphates cause the PH to run high while doing kalk? I'm working on cleaning up my sb, but didn't want to be too aggressive with that and cause other problems. I plan to do about a 20% wc this evening or tomorrow morning and I'll do a good bit of stirring and vacuuming at that time. I've got some new SPS that have now been in my tank for 3 weeks and all are looking great so I want to make sure I make small adjustments. Will stirring up the sb cause any of my parameters to spike?

Inorganic phosphate does not cause pH to rise during kalk dosing. Consider the pH and constituents in lime water, calcium hydroxide is very caustic. On its own merit, the pH will rise. In fact, this is the biggest contributor of calcium phosphate precipitation in substrate and on rocks. If your inorganic phosphate is elevated in the tank water, in the immediate area of kalk addition, the elevated pH can and will precipitate out calcium phosphate. This is a well documented and acceptable reef husbandry practice for removing inorganic phosphate from the water. I do not like it and I do not dose kalk. If you follow the chemistry, when elevated phosphate combines with calcium the cumulative effect is for alkalinity to decrease and for pH to follow.

Wade,

In answer to your question about pH and inorganic phosphate, it is the exact opposite. The chemistry pushes pH to drop.

Patrick

Wow. If a rock could ever be considered a muse, this is it. Like woods, im also really interested in what this is going for.

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The website at the company that makes these designer rocks listed it for $300. Each rock design is different. When it arrived in the mail it was in many pieces. Grog put it back together and just like the fairy tail, some parts were left over. I had already placed one part in my 12 year old 75G Jaubert Plenum display tank.

Patrick

Are you satisfied with circulation and placement?

Thank you for the clarification. What are you using for in tank circulation?

Haha...itl be a train wreck if you have to just get in my head...a lot of backwards thinking in there! Ok...so I have a total of 4 1.25 holes in the bottom of my tank. Two in the over flow and two in the center of the tank (I later found out I was supposed to use these as a closed loop system not my main feed) I thought that I would use the two holes in the overflow as, well overflow and the two in the center as flow coming in. Wrong. I'm planning on redoing my flow coming in and using the second hole in the overflow for that so I don't need to worry so much about the power going out

I missed the last two lines. I understand that all four lines are 1 1/4". How many lines will drain from your tank? How many will be return to tank?

Patrick

You must bring in a lot of new stuff to need these guys again.

Two years ago, I purchased 1000 lbs of diver collected uncured GOM live rock. While I did purchase Peppermint Shrimp as a proactive measure they did not do much. All total, there were less than 10 Aiptasia in 1000 lbs of rock. Hydrogen peroxide and an insulin needle eliminated all Aiptasia instantaneous.

Patrick

I do not use rock for biofiltration. Substrate is much cheaper for nitrification.

Patrick,

My iwaki is feeding the center holes on the bottom of my tank in the center of my tank ( unknown to me at the time that this is usually used for a closed loop system not primary feed). I'm thinking of making a new rock. Itl be a column like what's in your lagoon. Gunna put two 1" pipes in it, itl go all the way to the water line and run my flow from the top. That way I don't have to worry about back flow even if/when the power goes out...hope this makes sense to those of you not in my head

As a mentor, I hope I do not have to get in everyone's head. We could have a real train wreck. I assume this will be your closed loop for circulation only. However, you could use a canister type filter or a UV filter in line at a later date. Have you calculated gallons per inch in your display tank. Did I understand correctly that you will have two tanks in your sump? I could not completely fit in your head, you must help me here.

Patrick

PS. I just reread your post where you said this would be your main feed. Do you need two 1" feeds? What is the GPM and max discharge head of your return pump? What size is the inlet and discharge of your pump?

Alrighty so been pretty busy. Got the hood done and installed the Vhos I had from my old set up running a icecap 660 ...need new bulbs. So I'll be running 2 250w halides and 4 Vhos...gunna be a big buy to replace all these bulbs right off the bat but I think I'll the halides first then the Vhos in a couple months.

Did my first round of tests today (borrowed Manny's because I'm afraid I can't trust mine cause there old) nitrates I'm seeing between 0 and 5 but it's hard to tell on these api tests nitrite is 0 and ammonia is 0...put some ammonia in there and will test again later to see what happens. That's all for now

Ice Cap ballast with their Super Actinic lamp produced the most pleasing coral pigment florescence I have ever seen. Also, if you are on an economical budget, you can overdrive 40W lamps to put out 81W of illumination. With my first PAR meter, 20 years ago, a 40W 6500 kelvin lamp produced twice the PAR value as a 110W VHO Super Actinic.

Patrick

I am interested, Patrick and Tim

Dustin,

I will pick you up since I am already familiar with your tank start up. As I catch up on things, I will review your new tank start up on build thread. Once the software upgrade to mentor forum is in place, I will edit your tank build and we will be off to the races.

Laissez la bonne temps roulee,

Patrick

I really did not know what Grog had in mind. He has started up a new job that has him as busy as a one legged man in an *** kicking contest. We just did talk two days ago.

Patrick...what's the price on this? I think I'm interested...saw that thing in person and it's a nice piece

It was too big for me to pick up out of The Tank. You laid hands on it, but it did not look that good with all the calcium mud deposits.

Once I got it in the tanks with pods and mollies, I saw how gorgeous it is. Grog promised it to KimP. If it is too big for her, I decided I want it and will remove Stonehedge to make room for the Tree of Life.

I love the names we give stuff in our tanks.

Patrick

While I do not use live rock for biofiltration, it does provide structure for attaching things. When I purchase live rock, I get diver collected uncured rock from GOM for extreme biodiversity.

When this large Tree of Life was placed in the tank, within minutes I observed fish behavior that centered around this structure. The fish used it as a focal point of there activities. Some browsed on biofilm, some cruised thru its branches. It is 20" tall and measures 20" across at the top in its widest span. Since Rob showed me that my lens was dirty, I will do another picture.

Patrick

Bueller...Bueller...

Roy,

I am curious as to your purpose for these Nudibrances.

Some years back, at a MACNA Conference, I meant a hobiest couple looking for Aiptasia, to keep their Nudibrances alive.

Go figure.

Patrick

I use it in many of my marine systems. After 2 years in a reef tank, it is indistinguishable from hi end live rock.

Patrick

What about Edwards Plateau Limestone prevents its use in reef tanks?

Might want to clean your lens.

I stick my thumb on it all the time. Plus my eye glasses were dirty. Thanks.

Patrick

First two picture are the west view from north porch. Third picture is 50' around the corner on the east side.

The fresh smell of wildflowers chases away the Winter Blazai.

This is the epitome of an immaculate system. For certain, Jackie takes care of details.

I would like to see a log of man hours worked per week and cost of equipment to maintain this gorgeous system.

Patrick

This is my low cost / low maintenance, high nutrient system.

Whole tank. I have the same concerns about bacteria, so I add zeobac/eco labs bacteria several times per week.

My dosage is much less than recommended.

I will assume that you use the least concentrate at 3%. There are so many different ways to solve the same problem. I add either ChemiClean or Red Slime Out. Both are described as organic scavengers which, to me, means bacteria. When posting on another forum, I have an advisor for my biofiltration study thread that is a bonified pHd microbial scientist. He handle is Tibbsy and we often call him the "bug doctor". On a post to my thread, he explains the role that bacteria have in long term reefkeeping success with the phrase, "Microbial Overlords". I immediately quipped that the Martians In "War of the Worlds" would agree.

Laissez la bonne temps roulee,

Patrick

Can someone bring easy to manage frags for a newbie. Jake as a new member and a new mentee was stuck with hard to grow gonipora by a LFS. Can we show him some ARC love?

Patrick

Does detritus build up beneath the bioballs requiring them to be removed periodically so you can vacuum it out?

It might. In 12 years, I never looked.

Patrick