Mike M.

I don't think this will make you feel any better, but I just came through a 6 week period of losing colonies like this. For me, it turned out to mostly be TWO bad alkalinity test kits. Kits were saying my alk was a 8-10 and when I got a Hanna Checker in, found out I was at 3.5. You hear about bad test kits over and over, but its hard to realize it is happening to you when it does. No advice, just condolence. The rate at which you lost colonies suggests chemistry like Mark and Stephen said and based on what happened in my once nice tank, I'd agree. BTW, I had macro photos of the pieces and junk that came off them when I dipped them examined by numerous "experts"(some a Vivid Aquariums), and they ALL agreed that it was not a parasite or pathogen issue. Hang in there, we'll rebuild these tanks! Mike

If there is the belief held in the reef world that LED's bleach montis, then we definitely need a couple of varieties on the lower end of the rack to prove or bust the myth!

I kept it for about six months and it was starting to make its change into adult plumage so to speak before it found its way to my sump and then on into my return pump. It was a quick end for him at least!

Your welcome. I kinda feel like adding fish to a reef tank is like buying lotto tickets or playing bingo...not all cards/tickets are winners. You just have to take your chance. Hoven's Wrasses are also called Melanrus Wrasses. You have to get an adult to get the cool coloration. Vivid sold me a rockin' cool looking Hoven's whereas Saltwaterfish.com sold me a juvenile and it was just a dumb old silver fish.

Hoven's Wrasse is a favorite of mine. Cool look as an adult. Secretive Wrasse-I picked one up from River City and really like how it cruises the reef and it doesn't appear to be as aggressive as a six line. Leopard Wrasses are WAY cool in my opinion. Gobies---the more the merrier! I have a pink spot that is 8+ years old. Love that old guy! Aptasia Eating Filefish-don't eat a lot of aptiasia, but are very docile and interesting in their behavior. Love our bicolor Blenny. He can be rowdy, but he is entertaining nonetheless. Barlett's Anthias-I've had one for about four months now and really like how it stays out in the current. Give it some consideration. The Bartlett's do well in captivity. I feed one time per day. It is fat and happy.

All right, I'll see if I can chip a piece of my superman and if not, we'll raid Hollywood's tank!

Can you mix aptasia in with the xenia for a true omniverous invertebrate filtration system?

Now there's an idea...If LED's will kill xenia, I'm sure it will give AI an leg up in the marketing world. They can advertise, "Killer SPS growth and KILLS Xenia"

okay, one vote for xenia...Callahan, you must be sleep deprived. WTF? Xenia...might as well throw in a fist full of GSP.

So seriously, I'd like suggestions of what you all might like to see grown under LEDs. I have room for LPS on the bottom and then all sorts of places to poke pieces of SPS for the obersvation and shootout.

BTW....I have been know to bump to some Enimem from time to time. I'm 40, so I probably mispelled Enimem.

So here's what Fat Jack looks like with the new frag rack and a little live rock for interest installed. The rack is made from ABS and PVC I purchased from Grainger. It will hold just over 100 frags loaded and as you can see, has an elevation for most any type of coral. I'd like to know what varieties of SPS you all would like to see in the "shoot out".

I think it ought to be titled LED Shootout! Now if we can get University funding, a large place like yours to set it up in, a staff to keep the tanks, and a huge sponsors...now we are talking study. Honestly though, I think the semantics do support "experiment". I think a lot of the previous dissection comes from the idea that it is a controlled "study". Experiments do not require stringent rules, controls or otherwise. Like we talked about with Don on Friday, he is "experimenting" with limited water changes, Plus Rite bulbs, and Vodka. They are noncontrolled, nonblinded, experiments. So really we are doing an experiment and Mark wasn't at all wrong to call it so. We are NOT doing a study. I am happy to talk about this stuff all day long. It is good entertainment. The string hijacking to compare costs and report how you can do it cheaper with other types of lights...not interested. As I said above, LEDS are not and will not be a choice for the cost conscious any time soon. I see thread after thread going down the "I can do it cheaper" road and the thread dead ends. So, I am working on completing the frag rack and I picked up the first two frags to put, one each of each species, in the main tank under MH and in Fat Jack with the LED's as soon as tomorrow. I'll try and post some pictures so you all can get an idea of where we are starting. That cool Rainbow millie I picked up from you Friday and a Turaki I picked up from Michael D. are going to be some of our experiment subjects. Thanks for the background on freezer compressors. You saved me a bunch of frustration and some bucks! Sherri and I enjoyed seeing your koi pond. You have a really nice spread out there south of Elgin. I found myself a little jealous! More to come kids! MIke

You can certainly agrue/discuss cost vs. wattage all you want, this deal is about color and growth. LED are WAY more expensive per effective PPFD/PAR than MH or T5. That is not what this thread or project is about. It is about comparing "gold standard" MH lighting to new LED technology. Spectrum-Not similar. Apples and oranges, but it always has been. You can screw a 65k, 10k,14k,20k lamp in a MH fixture...whatever you like. With the LED, you can up the blue or white or run them all full blast. So, this is not part of our interest in running the shoot out. I'd very much like to keep the comments about cost of fixtures or long term operational cost in another string. It seems that most all discussions end up in the muck over which is less expensive. Let's just put it out there right now...LED IS NOT COST COMPETITIVE WITH REGARD TO FIXTURE COST. NOT NOW, CERTAINLY NOT IN THE NEAR FUTURE. LED'S ARE NOT FOR THE COST CONSCIOUS. I am off my soap box now thank you. Mike

I am pretty sure that it is not possible to address all the variables and create control groups for all the issue you raise above. That being said, both tanks are 24" tall and will be run on the same sump, chiller, skimmer, feeding. That's as close to controlling the variables as I have seen anyone do on any site yet. Yes, 6105s and an MP60 in the main display will provide more in tank flow than the two 6055's in Fat Jack. Yes, the lights are at different heights and have different reflectors. Last I heard, Lumenbrights are not available to house an AI LED fixture and AI optics are not available for metal halide lighting. That said, the height of the fixture dictates spread AND par and the lights in both setups are positioned to get light to the bottom of the tanks evenly (24" square area). They are set to manufacture specs with regard to height. If you would buy me another 60 gallon, I'll set it up in the mix with a halide to meet your objection to the 120 and 60 gallon tank issue. My guess is the results would be similar if not the same regardless. Guys and gals, this is not a scientific double blind study with controls. It is a side by side shoot off. We will not be measuring chlorophyll or zooanthellae density via centrification to see which lighting setup produces greater cell or functional density over the course of the upcoming months. Quite the contrary, we are gonna take photos every six weeks and see what is looks like side by side. If the differences are dramatic, it might make a good case for one system or the other. My bet is that it won't be a tremendous difference. I truly believe that we are going to see that both systems work and that if you like LED you will feel confident that if will grow SPS and if you like old school lighting....well at least we'll know that they haven't come up with something better in LED technology. This "experiment" is supposed to be fun. Any science minded person can poke holes in the variables and methods till the cows come home. Trust me, I know. I have done laboratory research in undergraduate. This is in no way a "proper" study. It is going to be interesting and fun for Mark and I as the pieces develop. I am hoping to get frags going in the tank this weekend and show off my custom PVC frag rack. I built it from scratch and its a pretty cool bit of homemade tinker toys!

Man you type fast....

I am posting so I can follow the thread.

Thanks so much for taking a look. I took a gander at your photos and thought you have done nicely also. Maybe you should be next on TOTQ?

I didn't provide a hyperlink because I'm not sure that's kosher with the board policies. I'm sure you can find it with the company name though. Mike

I found the fella that I bought the Tommy Knockers from about three years ago and placed an order with Tom back in January. Tom owns Aquaholics Inc and is a really nice vendor. I have ordered from him twice now and had a good experience both times. His search engine optimization isn't up to snuff so I know you have not likely found his site so I wanted to post one man's thumbs up here so that you all could see his cool stock. You can find him at aquaholicsinc.com So anyways, the photos of frags are literally right out of the shipping box. We had a problem with FedEx due to the weather and they got a little beat up. Tom was more than willing to reship if they were mush when I opened the box, but as you can see, they still hold a little color. They are really nice sized frags and Tom threw in the 300000 Leagues Lokani as a "gift with purchase" which I thought was cool. Many vendors will throw in a freebie, but usually it is some ridiculous piece that you probably don't want. Tom threw in a VERY COOL FRAG for FREE! I started working with him in January to frag and mount my order and let it heal in his system until the weather stabilized and I was back in town to receive the order. He updated me periodically as the frags cooked in his tank to let me know how it was going and then called me when he shipped to let me know about the package. His communication was great. So see if you can find his aquaholicsinc.com site and give it some consideration. The photos below show clips from his site and the frags I received. Mike

If you have a 60 gallon cube laying around and would like to sell, please contact me. Drilled or not, don't care. I can drill it no problem. Thanks, Mike

Get certified to scuba dive, both of you, go to the Carribean, and she will fall in love with the ocean. Then credit card statements will read....Aquatec, Marine Depot, River City....

I'm glad to hear it's doing well in your system. I think it is a pretty fast growing coral. I have it growing like a weed in the back of my tank!

It's sold and on its way to a new home.

Here's another photo: