ejaustin

Gee, thanks... I know what I'll be doing until the wee hours tonight... it's a real page turner! ej

Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. I now have a sump plumbed to my tank to, well, do all the good stuff that sumps do. After I followed Robert's instructions on getting the J tubes of the overflow box working (okay, after following them *several* times), I cut the power. The water level in the sump rose very quickly, and then stopped a good 2 inches below the top of the sump. When I turned the power back on, everything resumed operation, because the J tubes in the overflow box kept their water. I don't know what the actual gph is, but it seems to be at a sustainable flow, meaning that there's a consistent water level 1) in the overflow box inside the tank (about 1" deep); 2) in the overflow box outside the tank; 3) in the intake side of the sump; 4) in the outflow side of the pump, and 5) in the tank itself. It's not pretty and looks amateurish, but it works, by golly! My only worry is what if the overflow stops working for some reason: the overflow drains get clogged or the J tubes *do* lose their water during a power outage. There are a pair of each of them, presumably to make it less likely that something will go wrong with both channels at the same time. Still, "luck favors the prepared", as E says in The Incredibles. I don't think there's anything to keep the return pump from pumping water until the water level in the sump is below the intake of the pump. Right now, the overflow box inside the tank is pretty high. I'm thinking if I made it a little lower, it would allow the tank to contain the consequences of no-drainage (whatever the cause) better. (The surface area of the tank is probably about 2x the surface area of the sump, so lowering the level in the tank an inch would allow it to contain 2 inches of sump water, more or less.) And/or I could raise the pump in the sump so that its intake is only an inch or two below the waterline, so it would run dry more quickly if something happened to the overflow drainage. I think I'd rather lose a pump than have gallons of water spilling out the top of the tank (and probably burning up the pump anyway), in the event of a disaster. What do y'all think? I know this thread just goes on and on. I appreciate your patience. ej

Okay, the piping's done and doesn't seem to leak and I can get water from the sump to the tank. But I can't figure out how to start the siphon for the overflow box. When I do a partial water change, I just fill the whole tube with water, cover the end with my finger, and put that end in the bucket. I can cover the ends of the J tubes with my palms, but I don't have enough room to get them in place without moving my hands and by the time I get the tube in place, the water has drained from both sides. ej

Well, the first plan was pretty much scrapped. I've gone with all PVC from the pump in the sump (thanks, Gabriel) to the tank. I'm using a basic manifold (thanks, Robert) that will return the water near the top of the tank, coming out of 45 degree elbows in each of the two corners. After 2 or 3 trips to Home Depot, I have everything cut and pieced together. It goes from the pump to a one-way valve to a ball valve. From there, all turns are through 45 degree elbows except at the manifold, which has a tee. It's not pretty and it takes some odd turns because my sump is in an odd position in relation to the tank, but there's one continuous path from the pump in the sump to the tank. The next step is to fix everything together. I'm planning to use teflon tape at all the joins that are threaded and the PVC adhesive (with primer) at all joins that are not threaded. Gabriel warned me that the adhesive sets quickly, so I plan to do the teflon tape first and then take apart and apply the adhesive to each join, one at a time. It seems that I'm less likely to get anything out of line that way. Any other caveats to the final assembly process? After I've got it all together, I'll probably let it set overnight, just because. Then I plan to take the whole thing out to the patio and use buckets to give everything a test run. I'll open the ball valve as wide as I can to try to ensure anything loose at the cuts gets blown through the pipes. (I'll use the pump for my skimmer to do the return to the bucket the sump pump is in, so I'll be restricted by its capacity.) I'm thinking an hour or two for the test run. I know I can add more teflon tape if I get leaks at the threaded joins. What do I do if I get leaks at the joins I've used the adhesive on? It seems like the trickiest part will be doing the actual connection between the tank and the sump, because I've already got critters in the main tank (to say nothing of the fascinating little guys at home in the sump), so I kind of need to drip-acclimate the two to each other. I think the best plan is to do partial water changes on both to get all the measurements as close as I can. Then I'll open the ball valve just enough to get a little flow and let it run like that for a while. Even at a low flow, it seems like things should equalize after a few hours, so I'm thinking I'll leave it at minimal flow for a day. After that I'll adjust the flow to the needs of the tank and the capacity of the equipment. (I forgot to say that I'll check that the sump doesn't overflow if the power fails.) Is this a sound plan? What do y'all think? ej

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Y'all brought up several points I hadn't considered. (Sometimes when I think I have a bright idea, it's because I'm in a dimly-lit room. ) I going to meet with a couple people tomorrow for plumbing tours and discussions and hopefully I'll execute a better plan in the next couple days. Again, thanks, all. I'll let you know what the final layout is and how well (or poorly) it works. ej

Thanks for the response. Actually, I was considering using just regular, transparent tubing where possible, mostly because it's flexible. (Also, it's easy to connect to the powerhead.) Getting over the hump of the edge of the aquarium, I was going to use PVC to avoid crimping. And PVC at the bottom because I think it would hold up to the pressure of the water coming out of the vents better and I don't want it snaking around in the tank like a hose. Not a good plan? (I'm really pretty clueless about this. I think I understand how it all works, but I don't know anything about plumbing materials except that metal and saltwater don't mix. I'd like to learn but prefer to avoid loss of life in the process.) The powerhead is a Maxi-Jet 1200, rated at 295 gph (no head). I've had the powerhead in the tank for a week or so and it gives a very brisk flow that the fish seem to like and no one else seems to object to. (I have to confess I have a hard time telling which flowrate the snails and crabs prefer!) The sump is about a foot away from the side of the tank, so if I feed it back into the center of the tank, the horizontal distance is about 3 feet or so. The vertical lift is less than that. About a foot. (The sump is on a table next to the tank. Lower than the tank but not on the floor.) I'll know I'll lose some of the power if I use the powerhead as the sump pump. Do you think more would be better? (The tank is 29 gallons gross and about 25 gallons gross, I think.) Some kind of controller is a good idea. If I put a ball valve in both the line to the sump and the return line, does the line to the sump need to be more open than the line back to the tank? My understanding of this kind of system was that the water being pumped into the tank would cause the level to get high enough to drain into the overflow box, which would then be siphoned into the part of the overflow that's outside the tank, from where gravity would carry it to the sump through the outlet pipes. Seems like if the flow to the siphon is more restricted than the flow to the tank, a flood might ensue. Even if you think the powerhead I have would work, I'd love to come and look at your plumbing. (Boy, that is a very weird sentence to utter!) I've looked at lots of diagrams and whatnot, but it's never quite the same as seeing a working system. Thanks for your generous help. ej

For those who may not keep all my details at the top of their minds at all times, the "main tank" is a 29 gallon, 30"x12"x18". The sump is a bit smaller than that.kay, I think I'm ready to connect the sump I got from Robert to the main tank. He explained the sump to me, so at least I know the intake side from the outlet side. I also got an overflow box from Robert, so getting water from the tank to the sump seems pretty basic. Just get hoses that go from the outlet of the overflow box to the inlet of the sump. There *is* a bulkhead near the top of the inlet side, but from what I've read, there's really no problem with just putting the hoses right into the catch basin, as long as there's no way for them to wiggle out. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. To get the water back to the tank, this is what I plan to do: I'll use a powerhead for the pump and attach tubing to the outlet of the powerhead. Then I'll use a couple 90 degree PVC pieces to get over the top of the tank, with a hole drilled above the waterline on the elbow that's on the tank side (to break the suction there in the event of a power outage). I'm planning on putting that in the center of the top of the back of the tank. Then I want to use clear tubing to run from the bottom of the PVC elbow on the inside the tank to a PVC pipe on the bottom of the tank. I'm thinking the tubing will be relatively unobstrusive and flexible in case I change the depth of the sand bed. That tube will go to a PVC T, with a piece of PVC pipe about 13" long on each side. I'll cap the ends of those pipes and cut outlet slots every 1.5" or so. I have 2 questions: First of all, am I on the right track or am I headed for certain disaster? Secondly, what's the best adhesive for fixing the PVC pipe to the PVC T? Mostly aquarium applications seem to recommend silicon. Is that the stuff to use to join PVC to PVC, too? ej

ej's grandson has mostly the toddler versions of Lego and MegaBloks, but ej has a toy chest of her own. If I separate out all the regular rectangular pieces and put the blue ones in a Lego bucket, the lid *almost* fits into place. I have no idea how many blocks I have, but it must be 10s of 1000s, at least. I'd be happy to donate a few if they were going to a good home. They are always coming out with sets that I just *have to* get, so there are plenty to go around. ej

The first thought that sprang to my mind was "Lego!" Seems like they would be okay for an aquarium, although I haven't tested that yet. Lego is another passion of mine and it would tickle my little heart to have just a touch of Lego somewhere in my tank system. Remember, I've never laid any claim to anything resembling conventionality or even sanity. ej

Okay, the sump size sounds like it would work great for me, so I hope you'll consider it sold and let's say half the sand. If you think I can get the skimmer to work with the sump, I'll take that, too. Where and when? I assume cash will be okay. ej

I'm interested in the small sump. How big is "small"? (So I can figure out where I'm going to put it.) And i'd need sand for the sump, but I'm not sure how much. Will the skimmer fit in the sump? I might be interested in the 40g tank and stand, but I'll have to think that over. I've seen some cool limestone different places, but I've always been concerned that it would mess with the pH. Have you ever had these in saltwater and, if so, how did they affect the water parameters? ej

Actually, I've thought that an IV bag would be great for acclimation. (My mom was a nurse.) However, my tank is a FOWLR, so I don't have any frags to offer in trade. Trying to think... nope, I really don't have much of anything to trade at this point. However, if you're left holding a bag that just needs a new home, I'd be happy to help. ej

I'd like to know more about the collection trip. Not to hijack the thread or anything. What does it involve, what would I need to provide, how do I let someone know if I'm interested? I don't have any connection to MAAST and this is the first mention I've heard of it. ej

I think I'll be off the first couple weeks of July, but I'll be in town, so that would work for me, too. ej

I'm thinking of adding a sump to my system. What are the dimensions and how much are you asking for it? ej

Thanks for the images. How close can somebody get before the jawfish escorts them elsewhere? What kind of tankmates does he have besides snails and how do they get along? Do you think he's happy enough with the 4-6 inch sandbed? What do you think of the idea of trying to sort of pre-define a couple territorities with partitions for a while (I'm think a couple or 3 months) and putting a jawfish in each area? Do you think that would help them establish the boundaries in their own little heads and minimize the squabbling when the partitions are removed? (I'm thinking of a tank with a 3' x 3' or 3' x 4' bottom, with part of it devoted to sand and with rock in another part -- either in the back or possible as an island in the middle.) Where did you get the special grade aragonite for him? Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. ej

Yes, there's a article about jawfish in one of the early issues of Reefkeeping magazine, which piqued my interest in them. But they require a *really* deep sand bed. (In the wild, their burrows are about 9" deep.) WWM says 3-4" is okay for them, but I was hoping for some personal experience from someone. I'm thinking about my dream tank, and if it's going to include yellow-headed jawfish, I'll need to make sure that I get one tall enough to allow for a sufficient sand bed for these guys. If you go with a really deep sand bed like that, I'm not sure what kind of maintenance it would require. Let's say I got a tank that was 4 feet long and 3 feet wide. If I was going for a 10" sand bed, I'd probably want to go 30-36" tall. Would it be possible to partition the tank into areas, and then get 2 or 3 of these critters with one to a partition, let them build their burrows and establish their territories, and then take out the partitions? ( In the wild, their burrows might be as close as a foot away from each other.) If I can assign them sort of pre-defined territories like that, would it be possible to maintain a shallower bed elsewhere in the tank? In my mind, the answers to all those questions are "Maybe" and "Need input!" As far as the sand dollars go, I was thinking it would be cool to have a lightning whelk, since their remains are the state shell of Texas and they are left-handed. It didn't take much reading to convince me that there's no way I could provide for a lightning whelk. They get to be more than 12" long and they eat bi-valves, maybe exclusively, and really no one has a great deal of info about the lifetime rhythms of the lightning whelk. I'm not sure which turns I took to get from lightning whelk to sand dollar, exactly. Maybe a site that has info on lightning whelks had something on sand dollars, too. Much more is known about sand dollars and they seem theoretically do-able. In this dream tank of mine, I'm currently envisioning the front of the tank having a stretch of sand, with the rock more toward the back. That way, I could devote some space to critters that prefer sand to rock (assuming I could find compatible species of each). The idea that they would be hidden most of the time, doing their own thing, is absolutely okay with me. But I don't see a lot of mention of them, so I thought I'd ask. Basically, I'm doing a lot of reading and in my head I'm sort of populating the tank and figuring out what the aquascape would need to be for a given population. I'm thinking an area that has rock that goes pretty high and maybe having some zoos or maybe even corals of some kind, but I'm not really jazed by the idea of having a tank that is *primarily* coral. I find that I'm attracted to quirky and often hides-a-lot kind of critters. In my tank now, the shrimp are the showiest and I enjoy watching them, but seeing the royal gramma hanging out on her veranda for a couple minutes just makes my night. The astreae snails are busy little guys who leave nice clean trails, but I'm charmed by the Nassarius snails who wiggle into the sand like a child getting comfy in a down mattress on a cold night and then levitate up through the sand as if by magic when I feed the tank. And I love watching the subtle changes on the live rock. Sorry. Didn't mean to wax poetic. Anyway, the information in articles is interesting and the retailers can be another source of some info, but it's not exactly the same as chatting with someone who's lived with one of these guys. ej

I've been reading about some critters and I wonder if anyone here has had any of them and would share their experiences. Specifically - Yellow-headed jawfish - Sand dollars I'm fantasizing about how to stock my bigger tank when I get one and I don't want these guys to get too set in the fantasy if I won't be able to provide what they need. Thanks. ej

My little 29-gallon tank is all stocked at this point and I find I'm spending my time thinking about what I want to be able to do with my next tank (after I move). One of the things I'm thinking is that I would like a wide tank, like 24 or ever 36 inches, front to back. I think the critters would like it and I think I would have more flexibility in aquascaping. I could have an area of sandy substrate with open water near the front and crowd the back with lots of life rock and hidey-hole kind of things. I was just wondering if anyone has a wide tank that I could look at and talk over the pros and cons with. ej

Have you set the timezone in your profile? Right now it should be at GMT -5. phpbb does not compensate for DST, though, so after we change the clocks again in October, you'll need to set it to GMT-6.

Just to be clear, my Emma is a Royal Gramma (basslet), not a dottyback. The coloring is similar, but the basslets have a dark spot on their dorsal fin. From what I've been reading this evening, the grammas are more peaceful than the dottybacks. FWIW. ej

Aquadome is close enough to my house that I could walk there, but I won't be spending any more money there. Stopped in at Rivers and Reefs. Made me want to weep. ej

I'm nowhere near ready for corals, so neither would be of immediate use to me. However, either would add to my overall understanding and I'll attend if I can. I have my grandson for the next couple months, so it will depend partly on whether I can find someone to stay with him. ej

From what I've read, royal grammas tend to hide a lot and tend not to bully or be bullied. I don't have a lot of personal experience yet, though (I've had my tank less than 2 months), so maybe someone with more experience will pipe up. It's also my understanding that it's up to the new fish in the tank to find a territory and the fish who are already there have an advantage. I do think the strategy of pre-selecting a possible territory for the newcomer worked well and I think I'll do that in the future. It's not important to me that they end up there, but it is important to me that everyone have their own space to retreat to and that the newcomer has someplace safe to go. ej

The consensus seems to be that the emerald crab I had was exhibiting some very unusual behavior for an emerald crab. I took her back to the store and plan on getting another one when I am ready. I decided to replace the royal gramma first. I did a very slow drip accumulation for her, because the store told me the tank she was in had a salinity of 1.019. (They had only had the fish a couple days, so I'm guessing it might be standard procedure, but I'm not sure.) Anyway, before I put her in the tank, I had pre-selected a hole in the live rock for her that was unoccupied and is too small for the damselfish to get into. She agreeably darted into the little hole and disappeared from sight. That was Wednesday evening. No gramma sightings at all on Thursday, even at feeding time. I peered as deeply as I could into the live rock, but it's a fair-sized chunk of Fiji rock and who know what kinds of tunnels and whatnot are on the inside? Last night after the lights had been off for a while, I went out there and looked around with my little moonlight. In one of the holes (not her original entrance), I could see a little purple head hanging down. She wiggled a bit and moved her eyes, so I knew she was still breathing. This morning when I fed the tank, she crept out of an entirely different hole to grab a few bites to eat. Joey (the damselfish) cruised by once or twice, but she just darted back into the rock and was fine. A couple times she came out for a second or two and hung there in the water close to her safety, at a not-quite-upright angle. (I'm charmed by royal grammas' insistence on flaunting convention when choosing which direction is "up", for the moment!) This evening when I fed the tank, she came out of the opposite side of the rock (toward the center of the tank, near a little cave formed by a concave area of the rock). If Joey got too close, she just went back in her place, without seeming too concerned about it. Once or twice Joey went into the little cave and turned his tail toward her and fanned his tail but kept his place. I figured she probably liked the water current he was making for her. (I doubt that was his intent, though!) She seems to be feeling at home. A snail got closer to her opening than she liked, so she knocked him off. Anyway, I think she's wonderful. Her name is Emma, after my grandmother, of course. Once she seems settled, we'll try another emerald crab, aiming for one that can't get into Emma's house too easily. ej