KeeperOfTheZoo

None of the ocellaris clowns have fought. The new ocellaris were all much smaller, about 1/2 the size of my female. There was no aggression at all. The first one she adored, they paired right up and she had him hosting in her hairy shrooms with her the same day I put him in the tank. He did great for a couple weeks then died.

The other two clowns didn't last long enough to do much, but there was no fighting at all.

My ocellaris is not impressed with the tomato clown, but she's bigger. They went to sleep in opposite corners of the tank. We'll see.what happens in the morning.

I'm really frustrated with the loss of the little clowns. I can't find any reason for it.

Well, I give up.

I drip acclimated the 2 clowns for an hour. At the tail end of acclimation the little ocellaris was swimming side ways. The tomato clown was fine. I put them in the tank and the ocellaris sank to the bottom and couldn't swim. I pulled him out and put him in my sump and he appears to be in the process of dying. The tomato clown seems ok so far. It fought with my big female ocellaris a bit, nothing too dramatic. I turned the tank lights out for the night and it seems to have gone to sleep behind a powerhead, still coming out and swimming in that corner of the tank a little.

What am I doing wrong with the clowns that I've lost every small ocellaris I've put in my tank? This makes 3!!

All my water parameters are good (and have been for a while, the tank is pretty stable). When I did a water change last week my params were:

nitrates:0

phosphates:0

pH- 8.3

kH- 8 (this is lower than normal, usually is at 9. I drip buffered Seachem buffer 1/2 the dose for the tank in my top off water to add a little buffering capacity to the tank. Haven't checked it since. I didn't want to do anything dramatic because 8 is still in range, thought I'd add a half dose slowly, check it, then dose the rest if needed)

calcium- 420

temp- 80 +/- a degree or so as the lights cycle off and on

It's about an hour and a half drive to my house for the fish, plus acclimation. Is this just too much stress for them? Could there be some toxin in the tank that is specifically affecting the clowns? I've added a mandarin (that was very beat up, wasn't sure he would live) and a fire fish in the same time period and both did just fine. My more sensitive inverts like my sea star and urchin are doing great.

Why am I loosing the clowns? GRRRR!!!!

Thanks so much guys! Now I just hope these two clowns will stay healthy and happy in my tank. Tim may have cursed me by calling my current ocellaris girl a black widow.

I better not tell my 9 year old about all the clowns getting along. He wants a maroon clown so bad and I keep telling him we can't get one because the clowns would fight. I have to agree with him though, the maroons sure are pretty.

LOL!!

We have Cinderella books too. Yes plural. My poor daughter, she is SUCH a girly girl and she's stuck with 3 brothers and a tom boy for a mom. I love the animation of the old Disney movies, I watch them now and appreciate them so much more than I did when I was a kid.

My favorite movie as a kid was the Black Stallion, then as an adult I got to meet one of Cass Ole's sons (Cass was the horse that played the Black). I was just silly giddy about it. And of course the son was... you guessed it... a black Arabian stallion. Oh be still my heart. I better stop or the poor sweet chestnut Arab gelding standing out in my pasture is gonna get jealous.

Ok back to fish! Sorry about the hijack Lamont. I did mention your tank looks gorgeous though, right?

Thanks for the clownS! Plural. That was sneaky! Kendal is on his way home with them now.

Have you had any aggression issues with the tomato clown? If it picks on my other clown I'm bringing him back to you.

lol thanks but thats wishful thinking at the moment but hey a dream is a dream

A dream is a wish your heart makes, when you're fast asleep.... Oh someone save me from 6 year old daughters who watch Cinderella obsessively! Ahhhh!!!!!!

Sorry August, just had to do it. Phew, I feel better now.

I pulled the clown out of the tank and put him in a small container in my sump when I realized he wasn't doing well. So, nothing munched on him after death. I didn't notice any marks on him when I pulled him out of the tank, it was several hours later when he finally died that the marks were evident. He was acting like he had a neurological problem. Was swimming very erratically, then would rest on the bottom of the tank panting. I suppose it will go into the unsolved mysteries file, but it still bothers me. I got him from another reefer and he was doing great, then boom... dead. You are very right though that there's just no way to tell if the fish has something wrong with it that we can't see. It was a very small/young clown and I don't know how long his previous owner had had him. I just hate loosing animals, even fish.

I too believe the second clown loss was stress related. It was a new shipment of fish at the LFS, then the drive to my place and a new tank. It was just too much for him. Poor little guy.

It makes me feel horrible though. I hate seeing the loss of life in this hobby. I have a very hard time reconciling my desire to have these beautiful animals with the knowledge that so, so many die. The guilt is starting to build up. Especially when I'm killing clowns, I mean it's a stinkin' damsel. How am I killing the hardy fish and yet my tang & angel are healthy as a horse and happily swimming around? I've had several people tell me that you just have to grow a tough skin and anticipate losses. I guess I'm far enough into this venture now that I'm seeing the losses. *sigh*

I have a ton of spiorbid worms in my sump & fuge and now that you mention it some of the limpets as well. I guess there's plenty for everyone to eat. I doubt my tank will ever be clean enough that they'll all starve.

Oh the perils of letting husbands pick up fish.

My sweet hubby agreed to pick up a fish for me on the way home from work today. The guys (uh-hum, thanks for conspiring on this one John) didn't know which fish I wanted so my husband took both an ocellaris clown (the one I wanted) and a tomato clown (not one I wanted). He's on his way home with the fish now.

So, what do y'all think the odds are of two ocellaris clowns (I already have one, she's very mellow) and a single tomato clown getting along in a 125g tank? I want a pair of ocellaris, really had no intention of getting any other clowns. I've lost two small male ocellaris' to bad luck (first one was a mystery death after having him about 2 weeks, the second was stress from shipping lost him in less than 12 hours) and I'm getting very frustrated. All my other fish are fine and thriving, no losses of established tank members. It's just the new clown additions (I've added a couple other fish with no problems, well... until the fire fish decided to jump out of my open top tank but that's another issue all together. Lesson learned).

I have a fairly non-agressive tank so I'm a little worried about adding the tomato into the mix. Here are the fish I have now:

yellow tang (small)

ocellaris clown

2 green chromis

green mandarin

pacific pygmy angel (this is my current problem fish, she's mean. Chases my poor clown around. I've been debating getting rid of her but I'm dreading trying to catch her)

I eventually plan to add a blue tang and that's pretty much it.

Opinions? Should I find the tomato a new home or try it? I hate trying to get fish back out of the tank.

Looks fabulous!!

Thanks Tim, puts my mind to rest a little about the bristle worm. I don't know how I'd even go about getting it out, so I guess for now I'll just leave it. Man it was creepy looking!

Awesome about the limpets and chitons. No wonder every little bit of algae in my tank is disapearing. What happens when I don't have any macro left in the tank? Will I have a mass die off of little hitch hikers?

I wish I could get a pic of the last critter. My camera disappeared while I was on vacation a couple months ago and I haven't had a chance to replace it yet. I'm hunting around online trying to find this thing and I'm having no luck at all.

Do you have any other ideas about what could have killed the clown? He went from seeming perfectly fine for a couple weeks, fine the evening before then failing the next morning and dead by afternoon. The only physical sign of a problem were a few small slightly raised white welts on his belly. Did not look/seem like ich, and none of my other fish including my tang had spots. I bought another clown to replace him, but the fish was horribly stressed when I put it in the tank. Paced and paced and paced against the side panel of the tank, wouldn't stop to eat, wasn't interested in my big female clown who was very interested in him. It died in less than 12 hours, no signs of trama... found him sucked into the intake of a powerhead. I attributed that to not transitining well into captiviy/shipping stress. All my other fish are fine, no losses. I'm getting very frustrated with my inability to find a long term mate for my female clown. Just doesn't make sense when the rest of the tank is so healthy.

Ok, I need thoughts from those of you who have been doing this for a while. I checked the tank a few hours after lights out last night with a flash light which is always fun. Saw a few more things than normal and I'm wondering if any of them will have the potential to become problamatic.

First- giant bristle worm! I've read a lot about these guys. I like having the little ones, but this guy was BIG. Looked like this one: http://www.melevsreef.com/id/bristleworm.html which Melev says is fine, but frankly a 6"+ long worm in my tank is still freaking me out a little. I lost a clown very mysteriously a couple weeks ago. He was perfectly healthy, then one morning he was having a hard time swimming (was laying in the hairy mushrooms where the clowns host) and was breathing fast. Died by afternoon. I checked him over and he had what looked like a few sting marks on his belly. I blamed it on a couple of the new more agressive corals I'd just added to the tank (frogspawn and galaxea) but didn't really think that made sense. After all, plenty of stories of clowns hosting in such things. Now I'm wondering about this giant bristle worm! I've seen it twice in the area right next to the clowns mushrooms. All that said, my big female clown has been fine in my tank for 5+ months and I haven't lost any of my other fish.

Second- limpets! Bunches of mostly white ones. Just on the rock and film algae on the back of the tank. Didn't see a single one on any of my corals. Not sure where these guys came from but their population is increasing for sure.

Third- chitons, bright pink ones!? They're little, just over 1/4". Again, just on the rock and not on any of the corals.

Fourth- very weird thing I'm not sure I can even describe well enough for an ID. It's living in a hole in the rock. About 1/2" of the creature is always visible in it's closed position. While closed it looks a little like a chiton with a slightly pointier head. It's grey and kinda plated looking. However, it can fling it's head (?) back at which point it has a series of gills (looks kinda like a car air fiter) and appears to be filter feeding! It hasn't moved since I first saw it. No shell or other covering visible. It doesn't like light and very quickly clamps closed.

My amphipod/copepod population is also insane. They are EVERYWHERE in the tank. Lots of little things swirling in the water attracted to the flashlight beam as well. I guess that explains why my mandarin is looking so fat and happy. I know my cleaner shrimp have spawned a couple times recently. Mmm... shrimpy snacks for the tank.

I keep saying it, but the diversity of life in my tank just amazes me!

I'd like the false perc clown please. Hey Teoahnna, ya wanna pick it up for me? seriously though, I'd like the fishy.

I use it too, all my fish like it though I get it specifically for my tang.

Just check the ingredients and make sure its not flavored and that there are no additives. Seems obvious but I realized when looking at packaging that what seemed like plain nori, wasn't.

Was just reading an article that said stress is a top reason BT anemones split. Guess your guys wild adventure stressed him to pieces.

Target mandarins are supposed to be easier than the green or red to get eating frozen so I'm not surprised to hear one is eating.

I got a clown at FB and it died in less than 12 hours, luck of the draw but it still sucks.

Next time I'm in Austin I'll pick up some different types of meaty foods. I have a real limited selection out where I am. I'm sure the rest of my fish would enjoy the food diversity too.

Its great to hear about other mandarins eating frozen. I feel guilty even buying these fish because their captive survival rate us so poor. They're so beautiful though I had to try!

Thanks y'all.

Do any of the Austin fish stores sell arcti-pods? I hadn't thought of adding that to the mix but I'd like to.

Cyrus, so sorry about your pair. I'd be devastated by a loss like that. I have a lot of rock and a good pod population but I worry that it still wont be enough.

I'm really hoping my mandarin will start eating some frozen.

Wonder what it does to spectic... We have a well that we pump to a holding tank for the livestock and coop water to the house. Gray water runs out the hillier side of our property into the pasture where it can drain, everything else runs into our septic. No treatment plant for any of our water. I usually just dump the saltwater down the front sidewalk. So far, it isn't killing anything. I have a huge buffalo gourd plant growing right off the front walk in the direct path of the saltwater. Course, being as rural as I am I don't bother with anything as frivalous as water guzzling grass (no Jonses to keep up with). Our 'yard' is primarily native grasses and weeds, all of which gets mowed by the horses and cows far more often than by me!!

I was watching my green mandarin tonight as I fed 'meaty' foods to the tank (combination of frozen mysis and enriched brine). For the first time he took a little piece of mysis off a rock! I was getting ready to do the happy dance when the little booger spit it back out. He proceeded to do this several times with mysis and brine. Pick it up... spit it out, peck around some more.

I'm hoping this is the start of him being willing to accept frozen. Has anyone else had a mandarin behave this way? Did the fish eventually decide to go ahead and eat the frozen foods instead of spitting them out?

Good point about the salting up north. I lived in Utah, Nebraska and Ohio growing up. Lots of salting not just roads but sidewalks and driveways too. Plantd still grew in the spring. I think the road mixes now contain more than just salt, but I remember salting down walk ways and stairs as a kid with actual salt.

I have 2 good sized frags / mini colonies of fuzzy green pocillopora 1/2 to 2/3 of the way towards the top of my tank. I'd like to move the larger frag down to the bottom of the tank. Right now both frags are growing well and have colored up nicely.

The catch is I have a bit over 3 wpg of PC lighting. If I moved the coral down would the reduction in light kill it?

It's a pretty sps, but I don't need two colonies taking up prime lighting real estate. Either I move it or find one a new home.

I know Gabriel and nothing you said was untrue. I just don't want to see Christian's enthusiasm for the hobby or desire to ask questions squealched.

I don't think Christian is being any more irresponsible that a lot of adults in this hobby and he IS asking questions.

I'll stop being a mother hen. For the record, I'm not taking exception to the advice just the strong tone.

And Christian don't take offense to me calling you a 'kid'. I still call my 21 year old brother a kid all the time, drives him crazy!!

Lets do remember that we're helping out a kid here. I just spent an entire weekend hosting a camp out on my farm for one of our teen groups. Love the kids, but they are KIDS and they don't necessarily go about things the way adults do. The quickest way to get kids (many adults too) to shut down and stop asking questions is with snippy answers.

Yes there are great resources online. There are great resources on this list too and if asking questions and getting interactive feedback is ones preferred method of research there's nothing wrong with that.

I've read a lot about lighting and still find myself with a lot of questions. I'm not sure I would have had the patience or dedication for this hobby when I was a teen.

Christian, do read other resources but don't feel like you can't ask for clarification here.

Where are you located? I'm interested but live a ways north of Austin. Do you have an active phyto culture as well for feeding the rotifers?

This thread is interesting! It's also very similar to every forum discussion I've read on tests/testing.

When I first had my tank and realized it had major nutrient issues I tested obsessively to see if the myriad measures I was taking were helping. I think maybe because my nutrient levels were so high all I really needed to see were gross changes and any half way decent kit will show that.

Since my tank has 'cleaned up' (no phosphates or nitrates showing) I've stopped testing so much. Usually just every other week with water changes.

More than that, I've had the tank long enough to see that it's healthy. I may have 'trates or 'phates that aren't showing up on the API kits, but my tank is doing awesome so who cares. Between the test (that will show if things get out of hand) and just watching the tank I figure I've got things covered. Is that over simplifing things?

I do need to get a magnesium test.

I had a kinda funny realization the other day. I got rid of hair algae but then had some derbesia growing on a few rocks. Its a pretty macro and my tang likes to graze on it but I really had it set in my head that I needed all nuisance algae GONE in my display. Well, its mostly gone now and I'm wishing it would grow back! My tang is gonna miss it when its gone. How's that for being fickle?

I have 2 API kits and have taken water to Aquatec & RCA to double check my results (when I first got my tank), got the same readings across the board. All using API kits.

After doing a lot of reading/research it seems that none of the home kits are extremely accurate, especially for phosphates.