KeeperOfTheZoo

I have something 'growing' on one side of my tank on the sand bad. I thought it was cyano coming back, but it doesn't really seem like cyano. It's hard and forms crunchy sheets. I think it might be coralline growing on my sand!? Man I'm starting to hate that stuff. I like it on the back tank wall, and it's almost totally covered my back wall in the last couple months. But I wish it wouldn't encrust everything else that doesn't move away fast enough. I can't say 'that doesn't move', because I have hermits with coralline encrusted shells. Rediculous.

Does cyano ever grow without being stringy or fuzzy and not feeling kinda slimy?

Another vote for being Droid native. I gave my iPhone to my kids and got a Moto Droid.

Gabriel, do you think co2 build up would be an issue with an open top tank? Aside from aesthetics, one of the reasons I've been avoiding a canopy is to promote good ox levels. I do have a big glass center brace on my tank.

Is it possible to have high co2 and oxygen? I figured it would be one or the other as living thing consume oxygen and produce co2, though I'm sure that some ox is being produced by algae growth. I knew high co2 would suppress pH. My pH has always been right in range.

So much to learn!

Tim, I asked about pH and how it's affected by co2 and had that idea get kinda blown off. So what would pH do if ox was low? Would you expect to see a rise in co2 and low pH?

I agree about livestock showing signs of stress. That was the first thing my hubby said when I told him I blew $20 on a test to make sure my fish had enough ox.

Thank you everyone, you've pretty much covered the thoughts tumbling around in my head. Im still too new at reef keeping to not second guess myself and there are so many opinions on how tanks should be run. I think a lot work, but only in conjunction with a series of other practices and it gets confusing.

I run my skimmer 24-7 and do bi weekly water changes.

I'm not exactly sure what all the long term consequences would be but I think nutrient build up leading to failure of the tank was the big one, and of course livestock suffering.

Don't quote me but the overall method being advocated was a CC bed (no sand), very high turn over via a return pump, massive amounts of biological filtration via tightly stacked live rock, minimal feeding of the fish and water changes only every 4-6 weeks. I'm sure there's more to it than that as well.

Could have been a weak fish to start and the injury was done as it spent time sucked against the vortec. Or the other tang beating it up would be top on the list of fish suspects. Tangs are territorial and can be very aggressive. The less space they have the more likely they are to display such behavior. A 57g is too small for one tang, let alone two. They are 100g and up fish.

Sorry you lost your fish. I hate it when I loose a critter.

OK count me in, thanks Mark.

Do we have enough interest for a group buy? Is BRS one that gives an additional discount? After looking a bit there are a few things I need, a little over $50 worth.

I don't have a drilled tank so my overflow is based on what ever box I get. I have a 800gph CPR overflow that I'm getting ready to switch over to so that, numbers wise, works fine with my mag 7.

I guess I should clarify my question. I'm not concerned with high turn over through my sump/fuge if the oxygen levels I'm maintaining at now are OK. I have primarily softies with a few LPS & SPS. My original plan would set my tank turn over at about 16 tph, not counting the skimmer. That's plenty, unless powerheads don't count.

Now, I do have one of my current powerheads set up to agitate the surface of the tank and my tank is open top.

I'd really like to know what good/ideal oxygenation rates are to avoid the long term problems I was warned against.

And yea, I think Ill hold onto my powerheads.

I need to order one of their two part dosing kits. I'd need to wait until Fri though, I also don't have a PayPal account. If y'all could wait till then, Mark I could drop off $$, pick up the magnet and wistfully ogle your purple cap. I've got errands to run in town on Fri.

For those of you that test, what does your oxygenation level run? After talking with a LFS owner about my set up he told me I probably have really low Ox levels (he said he'd be surprised if it was 2). So I got worried and bought a test kit.

Like most it's color graduated. First thing in the morning my ox level is at least 7 (much darker than 6, not to 8). At the end of the day with lights running it's just a bit lighter than 10. So, I'm thinking my oxygen levels are at least meeting the min needed. Or should I really be trying for higher levels? My fish are all active and breathing fine.

I was also told to get rid of all my powerheads (because they don't contribute to oxygenation) and get a big (mag 1800) return pump for all my circulation/oxygenation. Thoughts on this? My current return is pathetically small, I have a mag 7 I'm going to be using shortly. I thought that plus powerheads would be fine for a softies /LPS tank but if powerheads really don't count for turn over then that mag 7 is also a pathetically small pump for a 125g.

Hmmm.....

Thanks for the additional info via pm's on the sump. Hope you still have it Fri when I can make it into town. I hope your personal situation works out as well, sounds like a rough one.

Where are the 20g tanks drilled?

You ready to give that cuke away yet Dave?

How long is it? I guess I might need it, And a frag of purple monti! I *think* I'll be in Austin the end of next week, I'll holler at ya when I know for sure.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+717+238&pcatid=238

Min tank size for 1 scorpion is 30g and I think these online sites really advertise the bare minimum tank size because its in their best interest for selling fish. 1 scorpion in a 40g would be good. 3? Do the math. Get a bigger tank or smaller fish. There are times watching my fish swim and maintain their territories and habits that I think the 5 I have in my 125 are as many as I should have, and I too have a couple that are not free swimmers or thaty spend a good part of their time hidden in the rocks.

My mixed sand/CC bed has always looked kinda grungy. Sand sifting snails and a big conch have helped a little bit. Ive considered a cucumber but I'm afraid of it nuking my tank.

I'm starting to see the logic behind a bare bottom tank.

I've been changing flow and corals around and one of my hairy mushrooms decided to pop loose in protest. They have split a couple times since I got them, very healthy and prolific. The mushroom has picked up a bunch of crushed coral & small rock under it's foot so it would be VERY easy to just glue him onto a big rock and make him stay put where ever you want. This mushroom is BIG, at least 4" across, probably bigger but I have several all bunched together so I don't see them fully spread out anymore.

I'm looking to trade for other interesting low-medium light corals.

I will be in Austin tomorrow and tomorrow only so need to make the trade happen then! Would prefer to meet at RCA in the early afternoon.

I do NOT need the following: kenya tree (or anything like it), xenia, red, blue or stripped mushrooms, GSP, button polyps, plain zoas.

I'd really like an orange or purple ricordea, a frag of purple monti cap, bright zoas, or???

The clown in the picture is a full grown female ocellaris for size reference, she hosts in the shrooms. The mushroom you get may not be this exact one, but it's from the same bunch.

I like the idea of a spray bar, I've considered using one but haven't gotten the logistics worked out. I think plumbing as or off the return is a great idea and was how I'd toyed with doing it.

Thank you for the stand Wayne. Its exactly what I was hoping for. I'm going to try my hand at building a skin for it that attaches with magnets. Should be a fun project.

Thanks Jeremy, glad you found a useful idea. I love that about this forum. So many ideas!

Well, its hard to tell from pictures but they're kinda looking like the non reef safe variety. Bummer because they are gorgeous.

Here is an ID link, what do you think Jen? I love Moorish idols and these are the next best thing. Don't want to wipe out my corals though.

Do you have any corals in your tank? The Butterfly fish are gorgeous, but how reef safe are they? Searching online real quick it says they'll eat inverts and corals. What's your experience with the pair?

I'm not sure if this counts as DIY, but I wasn't sure where to stick it! Thought I'd explain how my HOB overflow is set up. This set up truly is as flood proof as any system moving water from one container to another can be. It is not complicated, it does not require lots of after market modding or expensive after market equipment. I have a HOB overflow and a return pump. Eventually here I'll add an Aqualifter pump when I install the actual HOB box I have. That's a $12 pump to improve performance... much like all the various gurgle buster, durso stands, blah, blah, blah added to drilled tanks. There's always a way to tweek things!

The current tank shots are dusty, sorry... busy with kids. Lately here I feel less like a Mom and more like a chauffer, but that's another topic (oh the joys of teenagers).

Let's start with a picture of my under the tank set up. This whole thing is very DIY and I am very much learning as I go. This is my original set up. A 10g fuge with a DIY overflow into a 20g sump. Great in theory, did not hold up (DIY overflow got dirty and stopped working, this is the main failure of this type of overflow). This is one instance where a DIY overflow (or any overflow) is NOT a good idea, I could not flood proof the 10g tank. I now have a 20g long drilled fuge overflowing into the 20g tall sump. No loss of siphon = no chance of a flood. And this is the #1 factor when installing a HOB overflow. Plan for loss of siphon. If you do that, you won't have floods.

Look at how clean everything was when first installed!

This is much harder to explain than to put into practice so if I loose ya, well, I've probably derailed my own train of thought so don't feel bad asking questions!

Top side in your display tank you want to set the intake of the overflow high enough that when the siphon is lost minimal water will drain into the sump area, however don't run the water level at the rim of the tank, give yourself a little play. You will always have some back flow when your return pump cuts off and the water in the tank drains down because the water level will be slightly higher in the tank than the overflow lip. Not a big deal, just plan for it. There are calculators on the net that help determine the volume of water drained down 'x' inches over 'y' area. Blah, math. You will also need to drill a hole ABOVE the water level on what ever apparatus you're using to return water to the tank. Drill it just above water level. This breaks the siphon on the return just as soon as you loose water flow, also helps prevent back flow into the sump.

Here is a picture of my PVC DIY siphon fed overflow. This is about to be replaced as soon as I get motivated to redo my plumbing with a overflow box, simply because I want more flow and a bigger overflow area. This is with the water flowing.

Now, down below in your sump you need to create at least two chambers, preferably with baffles to a.) set the water level in the sump lower than the full capacity b.) create a small return pump chamber c.) keep the water level for your skimmer absolutely consistent no matter what the state of your ATO (or lack there of) and d.) work as a bubble trap. You also need to make sure that your sump can contain all the back flow from your display tank when the return pump is cut off. Just like for drilled tanks. IE- Don't skimp, get a big enough sump for your tank. Again, this goes back to that math formula. Find out the volume that will drain from your DT and make sure the sump is big enough to handle the additional volume.

Here is a pic of the water level in the sump when the siphon is running. Note the fancy tape line? That's the 'do not fill beyond this point' line. It's actually a bit conservative, I can fill it higher and still have plenty of room in the sump for the DT to drain (better safe than sorry though and it's easy for husbands to understand). The smaller return chamber on the left probably holds about 2g of water, maybe a bit more. Just fine as a top off area and return chamber. Note the bits of media floating around? That's what happens when you let a 3 year old help with tank mainetance and he accidentally drops a media tray in the sump exploding its contents. *sigh* Kids are wonderful.

So, what happens when the overflow looses siphon? And yea, they will sometimes. Supposedly if you use an Aqualifter it totally eliminates loss of siphon. I'll find out eventually here.

Basically when the siphon is lost the overflow stops draining, so the return pump empties the return chamber. The water level in the tank rises over the level of the overflow intake like this, it's hard to see but when the pump runs out of water in my sump the level of water in the display goes up maybe 1/4" over the top of the overflow. No where close to flooding out of the tank:

Down below in the sump the return chamber is as empty as the pump can make it (not bone dry though so the pump is ok), all the water has been pumped up into the tank but because of the baffles only a gallon or two can be pumped up before there simply is no more water to pump, this prevents a flood in the DT:

That's really all there is to it. Control the amount of water that can be drained, control the amount of water that can be pumped into the tank and you have a completely controlled and flood proof HOB overflow.

That's gorgeous Mark! I love the magnet idea, how clever. Would you mind elaborating on just how you mounted it and what kind of magnet? If it hasn't sold by next week (wishful thinking) I'll come into town and get it. Just too much going on till then.

I have no issues with hand collecting for our tanks. Its silly to think its somehow more ethical for the pros to collect en mass than for individuals to carefully select a few creatures to take home.

That said, if you're going to collect you should do so responsibly. Sand dollars do not fare well in captivity. They need very, very large tanks (6 square feet +) with very deep (6"+) well established sand beds. Otherwise they will starve do death. Many things are best left in the ocean.

Teoahnna, these wouldn't make it in your tank or mine either for that matter.

Wayne, Friday at 11:30 will work just fine. My husband is going to meet you. Thank you so much for the stand!!