JEN H Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I have a general question for anyone. I have a couple tanks, a 210 saltwater with a standard siphon overflow box with U-tubes that move water to my sump. The other tank is a smaller biocube (29 gallons) and I am working on putting a sump on it. I want to use a small Rio pump in chamber 1 to move water to the sump, is this a good idea? If not can some one give me an idea of why? I have tried building one of those W siphon overflow ideas that I have seen on the web, but it does not seem to work. I am probably building it wrong or priming it wrong but I thought maybe use a pump instead (I have plenty lying around). So if anyone has any ideas please let me know I would love to hear ideas about how someone has added a sump to their biocube. Thanks everyone for the help, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Bad idea because then you'd never be able to keep 2 pumps running at the exact same GPH. Eventually your tank will overflow and your sump will be empty or just the opposite, your tank will run dry and your sump will overflow. The beauty of an overflow is that it can only remove what the pump puts in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKilpatrick Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Yep -- no way to make this work. I have thought about it as an abstract problem and it would actually be very hard to solve. You would need some very precise float switches and a microcontroller, along with some very fine-grained control pumps, and even then it would be dodgy. Internal overflows are best -- they are almost bulletproof. An overflow box is almost as reliable, if you can add in pump to make sure the siphon starts. Edited November 4, 2009 by AlexKilpatrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEN H Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thank you guys, I have come to the realization that it will probably not work. I am going to see what I can do with an overflow box. Maybe one of the small ones from EShopps [6 in x 3 in x 10 in]. I just cannot seem to get one of those PVC W looking siphons to work. I have tried but once the siphon breaks it just does not seem to restart. Does anyone have an overflow box on their biocube, I am interested in how well this works? Thank you everyone, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexKilpatrick Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You should try something like this: http://www.marinedepot.com/Tom_Aquatics_Aqua_LifterDosing_Pump_Accessories_for_Aquarium_Overflow_Boxes-Tom%60s_Aquatics-OE1137-FIOFOA-vi.html It you cut a smail hole in the top of your overflow tube and use this to continually suck air/water back down into the sump, then your siphon will always start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KeeperOfTheZoo Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'm using 2 DIY overflows on my tank. I made one out of 1" PVC to overflow from my display tank down to my sump & fuge (t's under the tank to provide water to both). I made a second out of 3/4" PVC to overflow from my fuge to my sump. My sump and fuge are separate (fuge is a 10g tank I had on hand, sump is a 20g I also had). The fuge sits up higher than the sump so the gravity fed siphon will work. Both work great and I've stop/started them many times now and have never had the siphone break. Very easy to build too. Here is the link for the one I built: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219465 The only thing I would change is to use a larger diameter pipe for the overflow out of my main tank. The 1" simply does not flow as fast as some of the online charts I originally found said it would. I later read some more info that stated a 300gph flow max for 1" pipe, and that's exactly right. I had wanted to use a mag 7 return pump, but no way! It over runs my overflow in no time. So, I'm using my dinky little maxi jet1200. Blech. It's working, but I want more flow!! I think I'm going to just build a second overflow and call it good. Better to have two anyway in case one clogs... Obviously predrilled is better, but this seems to be a good work around if your tank isn't drilled. I painted the overflow in the display tank black, like my background and it blends in very well. Not obtrusive at all. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'd say 300GPH is FALSE. I'm running an Eheim 1262 from 1" pipe. The fault is most likely your plumbing. Especially with all the 90's on the MFK site pictures. I've seen many gravity feed systems running through 1" pipe at or near 700GPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barderer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If you want an acrylic overflow box that will fit in chamber 1 I can probably help you with that. Do you not want to use a traditional overflow box on your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEN H Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Zen Reefer, That would be great, I would love your help on this. I am not against a traditional overflow box. I would love to see your designs or get your help. Thank you again all, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KeeperOfTheZoo Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Mike, I'm not sure 'fault' is the issue vs. simple differences in plumbing. My system is very simple, is working well and with the exception of the gph is doing exactly what I wanted/hoped it would do. In talking with some other folks (who have been at this hobby far longer than me) who have built the DIY overflows my experience seems par for the course. The nice thing about the DIY overflow is that it is pretty darn reliable. I've read a lot of horror stories with the overflow boxes, but have yet to read anything really bad about a correctly build DIY overflow. I know neither of mine have lost their start up siphon and I stop/start my return pump fairly often (did it a whole lot at first when I was testing the system, do it now just during routine stuff). Here is the article I got my info from and it has proven extremely true for my particular situation and the gph I'm getting from my overflow. I suspect this is like all things and YMMV! http://www.wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm I think the gph has less to do with the 90* elbow joints <though I'm sure they factor in some> and more to do with full vs. partial siphoning. I could probably push more gph than I am now with something smaller than a mag 7 pump but larger than the maxijet 1200. However, I kinda like the idea of a partial siphon that isn't maxing out the overflow just in case something does go wrong! I'm probably just paranoid though. I'm going to build a second overflow just in case cause the more I think about it the more I think I'd rather have more flow than I need than to be riding the edge of what my system can handle. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 It is all about coefficient drag. I'm not going to get all all swarthy about how I am a pipe fitter and have to design this stuff all day, everyday. I've said my bit about this in several other threads. However I will support the statement that 1" pipe can handle 600GPH of flow through a suction and can handle much more than that with a pump attached. My entire point is that it is false to tell others that 1" can only handle 300GPH and that each 90' can equal over 15' in length of pipe. A handful of 90's can quickly restrict the value of your plumbing and that thing has a slew of em before it even heads to your sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEN H Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Caferacermike, Are you basically saying that the overflow box is the best system and that W-looking thing has its problems because of all the 90 degree turns it has to take before getting to the sump? Barderer, I am still interested in your design if you have one. Thank you again everyone, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 That's kinda the sum of it. I'm just saying that with all those 90's before you even plumb it to the sump, that may be the case as to why a certain system may be limited to 300GPH. A standard overflow box has maybe 2 or 3 90's to make it to the sump. That system has more than that before it even heads south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolut_racer Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I think there is a user in the DIY section that had drilled a biocube 29. Are you looking to add a fuge, more volume of water, or both? Some individuals with nano reefs will place a separate tank higher behind their biocube and put a siphon down into the rear overflow with a pump in the biocube for return, like a reverse sump. Other users have used the cpr hob refugium. You can also mod and aquaclear 70 and hang it on the tank as well as a mini fuge/algae tumbler. There is also an acrylic shop that makes a custom overflow box for the Red Sea 34 that might fit the biocube 29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I was going to stay away from the drilling part, but... I have an 8g biocube that I will probably end up drilling soon so that I can turn it into a cold water tank. If you'd like ot tag along and drill yours you can. However if your tank is up and running that might not be feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEN H Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yeah, our tank has been up and running for almost 2 years now...so I don't think that drilling it is an option. I think that the overflow box would probably be the best option at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) I disagree with the not drilling part. You have to keep in mind that when you cut and overflow box down so that it will fit into the back chamber, you will be losing GPH because your siphon will drain the overflow box faster then it will fill up. I learned all of this when researching how to convert my 29 gallon biocube. The best way to go is to drill the tank. David (Epic reef) drilled mine for me with no problems. It was drilled with a full tank of water and live stock. Trust me I know its crazy and it scared the **** out of me but it's worth it. It worked out great and eliminated all of the hassle with figuring out an over flow. Let me know if you have any questions and I will help as much as I can. Just PM me. Thanks for listening. I know that the pictures are small. I can post more later, or just take a look at this link to the DIY section towards the bottom http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/7002-nano-reefers-show-your-mods/ Edited November 8, 2009 by polarbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarathustra2 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Reall? Drill with the tank full of water and livestock? Did you do it through the rear compatments with those drained but water in the main part of the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yep. We drained the third chamber only down to the point we wanted to drill above. It worked out great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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