beefytang Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Over the past few weeks I have observed what appears to be a pair of small mussels attached to the live rock in my 20g. The first one I spotted was under a ledge, barely observable since a piece of rock overhangs, casting a shadow on it. The second one I spotted the other day, in a more visible location. I'm not too concerned about how to care for these creatures as they seem to have done quite well without any special attention from me. However, I'm kind of curious if over the long term that they may pose some problems...like multiplying/spreading out of control. Appearance-wise they strongly resemble Zebra mussels, although I'm under the impression they are freshwater creatures. Has anyone had any experience with these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedelgado Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Every once in a while I will see one attached to my lr with its tongue hanging out. I have noticed them for years and they havent multiplied like crazy.I think they are kinda cool lookin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yeah they are pretty cool looking. At first I thought I was just seeing things. I haven't read anywhere about this kind of hitchhiker before so it was unexpected. Doing a search I came across this article from NOAA and then got a little concerned. http://www.noaa.gov/features/earthobs_0508/zebra.html I just spotted another hitchiker...a white nudibranch. Really small, about 3/4" long. Wish it was a Berghia but it's completely smooth with a small sprinkle of black dots behind it's antennae. Seen anything like that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ACampbell Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 That's probably a zoanthid eating nudi. I would remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 That's probably a zoanthid eating nudi. I would remove. Hey there! I thought of that possibility at first but they don't resemble any of the known zoanthid predators I've seen before. All the zoa eaters I've seen have surface effects and textures that mine lack. You've probably seen these before: http://zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=384 The nudis in my tank resemble this one, only mine have a small elliptical pattern of black dots behind their antennae: http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=cadllaev Not dismissing your concerns or anything. You may be right and they might indeed be a zoa eater that isn't well documented. I just hesitate to kill anything before I determine if it's friend or foe. I haven't noticed any decline in my stock so far. From my observations, this one nudi isn't too bright (or it's a thrill-seeker). It climbed towards one of my korialas, got sucked in, shot across the tank and landed safely on the other side of the tank. Didn't seem to injure it. It was pretty funny. But I'll keep an eye on things to see if any zoas start disappearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKarshens Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 The Nudi will either starve or start eating something you don't want it to. They have very specific diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 The Nudi will either starve or start eating something you don't want it to. They have very specific diets. True. On average, nudibranchs have monolithic diets. Typically eating only one specific thing, like you mentioned. What they're eating I'm unsure of. I'll try and get a picture of the nudis and mussels today. They've (nudis) been in the tank for at least 15-30 days. That's the amount of time that I last introduced anything in the tank that they could have hitched on. The mussels came in on the piece of rock that I've had for months. Amazing I missed it. I spent a good deal of time hand-picking some bubble algae off the rock. Never once saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ACampbell Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I just hesitate to kill anything before I determine if it's friend or foe. I haven't noticed any decline in my stock so far. Why risk your awesome collection? I have the opposite opinion. If I don't know what it is, I remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Why risk your awesome collection? I have the opposite opinion. If I don't know what it is, I remove it. I understand. But I kind of have a fascination with studying these things in an informal way, I suppose. But mostly, I'm queasy about killing things in the tank that I'm not 100% sure they're going to wreak havoc. Same approach I take when going to HEB. =) I'm looking for them now...they don't seem to be in the familiar places (side of the glass). I really like nudis, mostly the ornate ones with the vivid colors. As I mentioned, mine are mostly pure white and very smooth. If they had the surface features of known nudi-eaters, I would have acted by now. I'm mostly curious if anyone else has had similar nudis before. I know pics would help...working on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Here are the pics of the mussel and the nudibranch. The nudibranch seems kind of bunched up in this shot, a little more dirty than the last time I saw it. As you can see, it doesn't have all the frilly effects as the zoa eaters. The mussel is really small. About the size of a pinky nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caferacermike Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I was always told that the "mussel" was a jewel clam or also known as a dime box clam. Not sure if it's the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 I was always told that the "mussel" was a jewel clam or also known as a dime box clam. Not sure if it's the same. Thanks Mike. I'll dig around and see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 From the causal name "dime clam" and "jewel box clam" I was able to track down some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylus http://www.conchology.be/en/availableshell...ylus&page=7 Since I don't know squat about clams, etc this is really interesting stuff. I think the ones I have are Spondylus varians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedelgado Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 the clam kinda looks like the ones I have, the nudi doesnt look like a zoo eater to me but I would keep an eye on it. Look at your zoo colonies carefully the nudis will take on the color of whatever type of zoo they are eating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 the clam kinda looks like the ones I have, the nudi doesnt look like a zoo eater to me but I would keep an eye on it. Look at your zoo colonies carefully the nudis will take on the color of whatever type of zoo they are eating Hey Mike! Yeah I've been through the pest nudibranch stuff when I first started keeping zoas...it really sucked. I do have some irritators, though...the micro-stringy sort that extend over 3-4" out of live rock etc. Not sure exactly how to deal with those yet. But as for the nudibranchs...fascinating little creatures. I hate to get all John Wayne on any of them before I know they're detrimental to our corals. Someday I'd like to make a nudibranch pico with some of the more exotic varieties. Saw some nice ones at RCA awhile back...tempting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedelgado Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 that would be coool.Are those stringy things those snails that throw out the spider web nets?If so I have those too. Every once in awhile I crush the shells of the ones that are close to my corals with needle nose pliers and my wrass follows me around the tank eating them.kinda fun for both of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Are those stringy things those snails that throw out the spider web nets? Yes, that's what they are. If anything bugs our zoas, it's those things. I'll try your technique, although most of mine are burrowed in the vugular pores of the live rock. Makes it tough to get at them. Got new shots of the nudibranch. Hot off the camera. Found it on the rock it came in on. I think this one eats algae or clove polyps...thats what was on the LR when I bought it. Didn't buy the rock for the polyps, though so I don't mind it cleaning them off. But I think, as some have suggested, that they may pose problems later once the cloves or algae is gone. Gonna have to ball up and make a decision to get rid of them I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ACampbell Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Is it just me or is there a black hole in the second pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Is it just me or is there a black hole in the second pic? That's exactly what it is. All sorts of stuff just vanishes right into that thing. Chromis, hermit crabs. My sanity. ;-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landfish Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 nudis usual look like what they eat and it looks alot like a white sponge. I would guess that would be its food source BUT that is just a guess. If that is the case your a lucky. I too have battled the zoa nudis and remember the pain I went through. Once I move my big tank to AUstin I am going to set up a QT tank as well I have wanted to set up a pico for some colorful nudis but the more research I do on them the more I think it will not work. The only nudis that I know that people are able to keep and reproduce are the Berghia and that only works if you have plenty of aptisia to feed them. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefytang Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 nudis usual look like what they eat and it looks alot like a white sponge. I would guess that would be its food source BUT that is just a guess. If that is the case your a lucky. I too have battled the zoa nudis and remember the pain I went through. Once I move my big tank to AUstin I am going to set up a QT tank as wellI have wanted to set up a pico for some colorful nudis but the more research I do on them the more I think it will not work. The only nudis that I know that people are able to keep and reproduce are the Berghia and that only works if you have plenty of aptisia to feed them. John You're right about the pico. As tempting as it is, I'm sure it's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. I think I should be content with just looking at photographs of them on the internet. Def would like to have a Berghia or two for aptasia, though. Finding them in Austin is probably going to be a challenge though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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